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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Has nothing to do with the thread topic
    Hey you ask the question all the friggen time.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Guy Incognito


    Try as I might, I can't see any real details on Justice Brown in the Ambrose Light case, nor do i see any mention in the Supreme Court cases. Did Justice Brown claim that American Presidents, and former Presidents, could be arrested by foreign governments?
    Hey, you're looking it up. I respect that Here's the short cite: 25 F. 408. I'll look around for more.

    There's nothing special about ex-presidents. Sitting heads of state get a pass, for diplomatic reasons, and reasons of national security. But ex presidents are just private citizens, and must be treated as such. A private citizen who tortures is subject to universal jurisdiction, just like a private citizen who commits genocide.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Hey, you're looking it up. I respect that Here's the short cite: 25 F. 408. I'll look around for more.

    There's nothing special about ex-presidents. Sitting heads of state get a pass, for diplomatic reasons, and reasons of national security. But ex presidents are just private citizens, and must be treated as such. A private citizen who tortures is subject to universal jurisdiction, just like a private citizen who commits genocide.
    But of course we are not just dealing with a former presient here. The US President lacks the power to go to war, if that's what you want President Bush tried for, on his own.

    This would mean that everyone who voted for the war, who supported the President in his decision, must also be tried. It could get quite messy.

    As you know, Islamic terroists remain a threat to the entire world so if you are truly interested in hunting down international criminals I suggest you start with those who commit, and advocate, terrorism. What do you propose we do with Islamic terrorusts?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I would do it and happily accept punishment as I would have deserved, knowing that I did the right thing. Two wrongs do not make a right.
    How big of you.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But of course we are not just dealing with a former presient here. The US President lacks the power to go to war, if that's what you want President Bush tried for, on his own.

    This would mean that everyone who voted for the war, who supported the President in his decision, must also be tried. It could get quite messy.
    I disagree. It doesn't go that far. Lying to bolster support for a war is a different issue than torture. I think there is a much slimmer case for the war crime of aggression.

    But you're right, lots of people are involved, from Bush and Cheney to the individuals in the CIA who actually committed the torture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    As you know, Islamic terroists remain a threat to the entire world so if you are truly interested in hunting down international criminals I suggest you start with those who commit, and advocate, terrorism. What do you propose we do with Islamic terrorusts?
    I disagree that terrorists remain the main threat to the world. There are lots of threats to the world. Despotism and erosion of civil rights is one of the main threats in the world, perhaps more pressing even than terrorism.

    But like I said, terrorists a scum and should be dealt with by our military according to due process and the laws of war.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have not seen many here with such passion over an issue and yet so ignorant of the issue that they are passionate about. you have selective outrage as you totally ignore the enemy we have that doesn't represent any nation, beheads people, flies planes into buildings, straps bombs on their backs to blow up market places and yet you want to give them the same rights as soldiers of sovereign nations. With all due respect how old are you?
    So with you it's the end that justifies the means? The term American Exceptionalism means nothing to you? We torture because they do it? We are no better than they are? We have gone through the most perilous times where nukes were pointed at our cities and as far as I know not one person was tortured.

    I don't think you know a damn thing about the 'enemy.' When we pull **** like this, they recruit more people to their cause.


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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Some court isn't the one declaring that it has the authority, generations of international legal scholars have decided that.
    And from whence do they derive their authority?

    And more to the point, in the United States the controlling opinion of Justice Brown in the Ambrose Light case agrees with them.
    By all means, I'd love to see your explanation for how that opinion gives the Hague authority to prosecute Americans.

    The fact that you are not a sovereign nation is what keeps you from declaring yourself a competent tribunal. Do you have any other ridiculous questions?
    Ah, so that's the relevant factor? So you're saying that if Iran decided tomorrow that it was going to do what I just suggested, you'd be okay with it? You'd hop on a plane to fly to Iran if they decided to prosecute you?
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    So with you it's the end that justifies the means? The term American Exceptionalism means nothing to you? We torture because they do it? We are no better than they are? We have gone through the most perilous times where nukes were pointed at our cities and as far as I know not one person was tortured.

    I don't think you know a damn thing about the 'enemy.' When we pull **** like this, they recruit more people to their cause.
    Explain to me why Obama had to issue an executive order against waterboarding if it was already considered torturn and against international law?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Explain to me why Obama had to issue an executive order against waterboarding if it was already considered torturn and against international law?
    To show the world waterboarding is NOT something we do as a nation. It's an affirmation!!! Get it?


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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Jurisdiction be damned.


    They don't have enough fighters, carriers, tanks and infantry to force us to let them exercise it, and in international relations that is what counts the most.

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