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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    I am all for water boarding. See America always takes the high road even in torture. Water boarding is not torture. SERE school was torture and I enlisted to go through it.

    And any of you hypocrites want to sit here in judgement want to tell me that if your child was being held hostage and the one person whom could save their life was sitting in front of you and refuse to talk, tell me that you wouldnt consider and then follow through with doing anything within your means to get them to talk.
    O ya America always take the high road were so virtuos and pure phhhht thats the biggest load of s**t ive ever heard what about all the atrocities that have been commited at Gitmo and the other prison camps ? Im sure water boarding wasnt the only thing going on in those facilities and i would say its safe to assume that the president had knowledge of what was going on.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Some court isn't the one declaring that it has the authority, generations of international legal scholars have decided that. And more to the point, in the United States the controlling opinion of Justice Brown in the Ambrose Light case agrees with them. Is it starting to sink in yet?




    The fact that you are not a sovereign nation is what keeps you from declaring yourself a competent tribunal. Do you have any other ridiculous questions?
    I have not seen many here with such passion over an issue and yet so ignorant of the issue that they are passionate about. you have selective outrage as you totally ignore the enemy we have that doesn't represent any nation, beheads people, flies planes into buildings, straps bombs on their backs to blow up market places and yet you want to give them the same rights as soldiers of sovereign nations. With all due respect how old are you?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have not seen many here with such passion over an issue and yet so ignorant of the issue that they are passionate about. you have selective outrage as you totally ignore the enemy we have that doesn't represent any nation, beheads people, flies planes into buildings, straps bombs on their backs to blow up market places and yet you want to give them the same rights as soldiers of sovereign nations. With all due respect how old are you?
    Who's ignoring the "enemy that doesn't respect nations?" That enemy will meet with justice at the hand of our military. I'll let them be dealt with according to due process and the laws of war, which thank God the vast majority of our military respects.

    It's the enemy within that I am worried about. The heads of state who torture are no better than any pirate or genocidal thug. They should meet with justice too, but unfortunately when it comes to people like Bush, they have too much clout and game the system.

    As for my ignorance, I'll say that you're right I don't know much. But I am not ignorant of the law with regard to war crimes and universal jurisdiction, and I would dare say it is some of the people who I've been arguing against in this thread who are exceedingly ignorant there. The thread speaks for itself about that.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-13-10 at 07:14 PM.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The heads of state who torture are no better than any pirate or genocidal thug.
    Yeah. Pouring water over someone's face is exactly the same as piracy and genocide.


    As for my ignorance, I'll say that you're right I don't know much. But I am not ignorant of the law with regard to war crimes and universal jurisdiction, and I would dare say it is some of the people who I've been arguing against in this thread who are exceedingly ignorant there. The thread speaks for itself about that.
    Good grief. All you did was say "generations of legal scholars" agree with you, without citing anything support of that, and then you self-torpedoed the only source you did cite. Your understanding of jurisdiction is entirely wrong, and even the Wikipedia article where you actually got all this stuff says so. Hope. Less.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Who's ignoring the "enemy that doesn't respect nations?" That enemy will meet with justice at the hand of our military. I'll let them be dealt with according to due process and the laws of war, which thank God the vast majority of our military respects.

    It's the enemy within that I am worried about. The heads of state who torture are no better than any pirate or genocidal thug. They should meet with justice too, but unfortunately when it comes to people like Bush, they have too much clout and game the system.

    As for my ignorance, I'll say that you're right I don't know much. But I am not ignorant of the law with regard to war crimes and universal jurisdiction, and I would dare say it is the people who I've been arguing against in this thread who are exceedingly ignorant there. The thread speaks for itself about that.
    That military that you respect so much respects GW Bush and doesn't have the problems you do with waterboarding the terrorists as it saved a lot of lives. My bet is you are one of those that demonized Bush for not preventing 9/11 yet now give him no credit for preventing others.

    You are indeed ignorant of the law as evidenced by your posts. Terrorists are not governed by international law and thus have no protection under that law even if waterboarding was torture. This country abides by international law as a choice not a responsibility and certainly doesn't have any responsibility to apply international law to terrorists as that was never the intent.

    Why such passion for this issue and why the selective outrage while ignoring the actions of all other Presidents whose major responsibility is to protect this country and even you. I wonder what actions you would authorize to save the lives of a loved one, if you have any?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That military that you respect so much respects GW Bush and doesn't have the problems you do with waterboarding the terrorists as it saved a lot of lives.

    I don't anthropomorphize the military like that. There are a lot of diverse political views in the military, but it's really irrelevant to my respect for their service or to my opinions on policy.

    I won't address any of your red herring issues. Let's try to stay focused shall we? I like you, I wouldn't want to see the mods yell at you for going off topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are indeed ignorant of the law as evidenced by your posts. Terrorists are not governed by international law and thus have no protection under that law even if waterboarding was torture. This country abides by international law as a choice not a responsibility and certainly doesn't have any responsibility to apply international law to terrorists as that was never the intent.
    The above is precisely the kind of ignorance of the law I'm talking about! Of course terrorists are "covered under international law." All criminals are covered under internaitional law, and torturing any kind of criminal is a crime against humanity. I think where you're getting confused is that the Geneva convention doesn't cover terrorists.

    All human beings have protection under jus cogens. That's what it means in Latin, compelling law. The United States Suprme Court defines this as law from which no derogation is permitted. You can't trade slaves, period. Even if you're outside of US jurisdiction we can still try you for it in our courts. Same deal for courts in Timbuktu. Torture is a crime jus cogens. QED

    That is an argument. Address it on its merits or don't bother to address me at all.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-13-10 at 07:30 PM.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Guy Incognito
    Some court isn't the one declaring that it has the authority, generations of international legal scholars have decided that. And more to the point, in the United States the controlling opinion of Justice Brown in the Ambrose Light case agrees with them. Is it starting to sink in yet?
    Try as I might, I can't see any real details on Justice Brown in the Ambrose Light case, nor do i see any mention in the Supreme Court cases. Did Justice Brown claim that American Presidents, and former Presidents, could be arrested by foreign governments?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I don't anthhropomorphize the military like that. There area lot of diverse political views in the military, but it's really irrelevant to my respect for their service or to my opinions on policy.

    I won't address any of your red herring issues. Let's try to stay focused shall we? I like you, I wouldn't want to see the mods yell at you for going off topic.



    The above is precisely the kind of ignorance of the law I'm talking about! Of course terrorists are "covered under international law." All criminals are covered under internaitional law, and torturing any kind of criminal is a crime against humanity. I think where you're getting confused is that the Geneva convention doesn't cover terrorists.

    All human beings have protection under jus cogens. That's what it means in Latin, compelling law. The United States Suprme Court defines this as law from which no derogation is permitted. You can't trade slaves, period. Even if your'e outside of US jurisdiction we can still try you for it in our courts. Same deal for courts in Timbuktu. Torture is a crime jus cogens. QED

    That is an argument. Address it on its merits or don't bother to address me at all.
    There in lies your problem, these are not criminals they represent a perverted ideology that wants even you dead because of their interpretation of their religion. You, just like Obama, simply don't understand the enemy we face. They don't believe they are breaking any law but instead are acting out their interpretation of their religion and that is different from a ciminal activity. I question whether these animals are human. You just don't seem to get not nor have you told us why you have such passion for this issue?

    Is it torture for civilians to go to bed at night and be killed by drone attacks in Pakistan? I would love to address the merits of your argument but since you cannot accept the fact that these terrorists are religious fanatics and don't believe they are breaking any law, there are no merits to your argument.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    There in lies your problem, these are not criminals they represent a perverted ideology that wants even you dead because of their interpretation of their religion. You, just like Obama, simply don't understand the enemy we face.
    what did Obama do to hurt you or your family?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    what did Obama do to hurt you or your family?
    Has nothing to do with the thread topic

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