" Those who plan to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it" - Thomas Paine
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. " -Thomas Jefferson
It's the enemy within that I am worried about. The heads of state who torture are no better than any pirate or genocidal thug. They should meet with justice too, but unfortunately when it comes to people like Bush, they have too much clout and game the system.
As for my ignorance, I'll say that you're right I don't know much. But I am not ignorant of the law with regard to war crimes and universal jurisdiction, and I would dare say it is some of the people who I've been arguing against in this thread who are exceedingly ignorant there. The thread speaks for itself about that.
Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-13-10 at 06:14 PM.
Good grief. All you did was say "generations of legal scholars" agree with you, without citing anything support of that, and then you self-torpedoed the only source you did cite. Your understanding of jurisdiction is entirely wrong, and even the Wikipedia article where you actually got all this stuff says so. Hope. Less.As for my ignorance, I'll say that you're right I don't know much. But I am not ignorant of the law with regard to war crimes and universal jurisdiction, and I would dare say it is some of the people who I've been arguing against in this thread who are exceedingly ignorant there. The thread speaks for itself about that.
2001-2008: Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
2009-2016: Dissent is the highest form of racism.
2017-? (Probably): Dissent is the highest form of misogyny.
You are indeed ignorant of the law as evidenced by your posts. Terrorists are not governed by international law and thus have no protection under that law even if waterboarding was torture. This country abides by international law as a choice not a responsibility and certainly doesn't have any responsibility to apply international law to terrorists as that was never the intent.
Why such passion for this issue and why the selective outrage while ignoring the actions of all other Presidents whose major responsibility is to protect this country and even you. I wonder what actions you would authorize to save the lives of a loved one, if you have any?
I don't anthropomorphize the military like that. There are a lot of diverse political views in the military, but it's really irrelevant to my respect for their service or to my opinions on policy.
I won't address any of your red herring issues. Let's try to stay focused shall we? I like you, I wouldn't want to see the mods yell at you for going off topic.
All human beings have protection under jus cogens. That's what it means in Latin, compelling law. The United States Suprme Court defines this as law from which no derogation is permitted. You can't trade slaves, period. Even if you're outside of US jurisdiction we can still try you for it in our courts. Same deal for courts in Timbuktu. Torture is a crime jus cogens. QED
That is an argument. Address it on its merits or don't bother to address me at all.
Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-13-10 at 06:30 PM.
Try as I might, I can't see any real details on Justice Brown in the Ambrose Light case, nor do i see any mention in the Supreme Court cases. Did Justice Brown claim that American Presidents, and former Presidents, could be arrested by foreign governments?Some court isn't the one declaring that it has the authority, generations of international legal scholars have decided that. And more to the point, in the United States the controlling opinion of Justice Brown in the Ambrose Light case agrees with them. Is it starting to sink in yet?
Is it torture for civilians to go to bed at night and be killed by drone attacks in Pakistan? I would love to address the merits of your argument but since you cannot accept the fact that these terrorists are religious fanatics and don't believe they are breaking any law, there are no merits to your argument.