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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That you "hate" the man says a great deal about the Left today.
    Wow Deuce, you speak for the entirety of the American Left now. Cool.

    Is that an elected or appointed position?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You hate his actions because you base your opinions out of ignorance, not facts which of course you want to ignore. I learned a long time ago to trust but verify and that is good advice for liberals. It is ok to buy the rhetoric but then verify that rhetoric for if you did you wouldn't buy the media spin again. GW Bush did nothing more than do his job which was to protect and defend this country. That was his number one priority and he did it well.
    As far as rhetorec is concerned, what has been purchased wholesale by far too many people is that "you are either with us or against us". Between the jingoists who vote "with" and the reactionaries voting "against", there is little room for those who reject the torture, but also realize that Amnesty International has quite the agenda of their own.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Wow Deuce, you speak for the entirety of the American Left now. Cool.

    Is that an elected or appointed position?

    He didn't show up to the meeting that night so he got the job.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Wow Deuce, you speak for the entirety of the American Left now. Cool.

    Is that an elected or appointed position?
    It may be hereditary, Coronado.

    At some point he may have children of his own, and so can pass the mantle on to Trey just as Ace passed it on to him.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    As far as rhetorec is concerned, what has been purchased wholesale by far too many people is that "you are either with us or against us". Between the jingoists who vote "with" and the reactionaries voting "against", there is little room for those who reject the torture, but also realize that Amnesty International has quite the agenda of their own.
    There is no question that Amnesia International has an agenda just like the American left. All will ignore the atrocities going on around the world to try and prosecute a President who broke no laws. It serves no purpose to relive this other than to divert from what is going on right now and to divert from the human rights abuses of nations all over the world many of whom are represented in Amnesia International.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It is either torture or it is not torture.
    You're right, an action either meets the definition of torture or it doesn't. But when you say "it is either torture or it isn't," if by "it" you mean "water-boarding" you are fantastically incorrect. An action must meet the definition of torture to be considered the war crime of torture.

    An act being severely painful isn't enough to make it torture. Is a dentist appointment torture? Of course not, because you go to the dentist and give your consent, and moreover it isn't for interrogation purposes.

    An act has to occur under certain circumstances, such as with lack of consent and for interrogation purposes. Water-boarding performed on detainees for interrogation purposes without consent is torture, and water-boarding performed on consenting trainees for training purposes is not torture.


    I don't really see what's so hard about this to understand. We've been over this same point many, many times already.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-13-10 at 12:39 PM.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Wow Deuce, you speak for the entirety of the American Left now. Cool.

    Is that an elected or appointed position?
    You feel Deuce is speaking for the entire Left?? I certainly hope thats not the case.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You feel Deuce is speaking for the entire Left?? I certainly hope thats not the case.
    I don't "feel" anything. I'm just responding to your implication that he is.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Done to Americans? Crime worthy of death!
    Done to suspected terrorists? Oh, no biggy.

    Congrats! You finally get it!

    Seriously though, we waterboard our own troops in SERE training. The war-crimes executions were never exclusively about waterboarding either, that was just one item on a long laundry list.

    Yes, it is perfectly ok for us to waterboard non-American unlawful combatants if we have reasonable evidence they pose a threat to us and won't give up the info. Waterboarding is rough, but calling it "torture" puts it on the level of hot irons and racks, and it isn't.

    But even more importantly, I don't accept that we have to give them moral equivalency and say "if it's wrong for them to do it, it is wrong for us to do it."


    Why? Because there is no moral equivalency between America and Al-Queda. Our end purposes are very different, our modes of operation are very different: they saw the heads off of civilian journalists. THAT is torture.

    Even if there were some moral equivalency, I wouldn't care, because we're us and they are "them" and we're at war with each other.




    We should never let Amnesty International or any other international "authority" try any American President for anything, nor even any American soldier. To do so is a surrender of our sovereignty. (That's what happens to you when you LOSE the war, btw.)

    As long as we have the power, we make the rules. When we no longer have the power or the will to do so, someone else will make the rules and we'll have to suck it up and deal with it. That's reality.


    On the whole, I'd say we exercise our power with far greater restraint than many historical empires have: Persia, Rome, the Caliphate, colonial Spain. Only the colonial British Empire held power with anything like the restraint which we employ.

    If Al-Q and company succeeded in restoring the Caliphate and achieving global dominance for their extreme version of Islam, you can rest assured they would not be so gentle and reasonable.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You feel Deuce is speaking for the entire Left?? I certainly hope thats not the case.
    I don't feel that Coronado feels that Deuce is speaking for the entire left so much as I feel that Coronodo feels that Deuce feels he is doing so.

    At least that's what I feel.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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