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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    While I won't indulge your philosophical speculations, I'll gladly answer the relevant question. Did Bush propagate a policy of torture, and thereby commit a war crime? Yes, by his own admission he did.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    It's the same principle. It's the difference between assault and boxing. Or between rape and sex. Take your pick.

    Please explain to me how you don't get the analogy. It seems like it is going over your head, and I would like to help you understand it.

    An act is only torture when it is performed without the consent of the person the act is performed on. In one case, we're talking about forcible waterboarding of a victim being the war crime of torture. In another case we're talking about the consented to waterboarding of military trainees as part of a training exercise. The difference is a stark as day and night whether you want to admit it or not.
    Sorry, but no it is not. These detainees are already "detained", that is held completely captive against their will. Consent is not a part of the equation at that point. You cite two examples of things folks may engage in for pleasure, and compare them to circumstances that would then make them criminal, as in rape and assault, which can cause lasting physical harm. Consent just simply is not a threshold in wartime.

    Waterboarding is just as physically uncomfortable with or without consent, btw.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    quick refresher for everyone... Saddam was saying he had WMDs. He had used them on the Kurds in the past. Why should Bush et al be punished for believing him?
    It's a serious question as to why people would deliberately lie in order to make a political point, and it has poisoned much of society today. Perhaps it went on all the time, i don't know, but the number of lies we see today, put forward as fact, is difficult to explain away. Do these people even know they are lying or are they just dead ignorant? Or does the difference matter?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    It's the same principle. It's the difference between assault and boxing. Or between rape and sex. Take your pick.

    Please explain to me how you don't get the analogy. It seems like it is going over your head, and I would like to help you understand it.



    Yes.



    An act is only torture when it is performed without the consent of the person the act is performed on. In one case, we're talking about forcible waterboarding of a victim being the war crime of torture. In another case we're talking about the consented to waterboarding of military trainees as part of a training exercise. The difference is a stark as day and night whether you want to admit it or not.
    You know why we waterboard some of our troops as part of their training?

    Because it is not torture.
    We do not torture our troops.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    As for training to resist waterboarding


    Do you not think the US military might use mild torture techniques to help its soldiers resist torture from the enemey?

    They would not use more violent means of torture as that might of course cause permanent damage, a few broken fingers or toes might prevent the soldiers from fighting
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  6. #136
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Most of the world believed Sadam had WMDs. Many other countries helped America in the war. There was no propagating by Bush, there wasn't some evil conspiracy to get into Iraq. Many nations and leaders saw Sadam as a threat, many nations helped America in Iraq. I believe the whole "Bush lied people died" thing is Democrat propaganda. It's an unprovable accusation, and facts would support that Bush acted upon international wisdom that believed Iraq had WMDs.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    As for training to resist waterboarding


    Do you not think the US military might use mild torture techniques to help its soldiers resist torture from the enemey?

    They would not use more violent means of torture as that might of course cause permanent damage, a few broken fingers or toes might prevent the soldiers from fighting


    I don't think any of us who have been through SERE would agree with you that it was mild.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Rev... it's useless... somes peepels yew jus kai't edj-u-kate.

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  9. #139
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I don't think any of us who have been through SERE would agree with you that it was mild.
    I agree that it is absurd to suggest that water-boarding as a training technique is in any way mild. It is severe, and it is this sort of training that makes our military the best in the world. But, while it might be a tortuous experience, it is something categorically different from the war crime torture, and does not negate the fact that water-boarding on unwilling victims is a war crime.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-11-10 at 02:49 PM.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You know why we waterboard some of our troops as part of their training?

    Because it is not torture.
    We do not torture our troops.

    .
    You know why I sleep in the garage? Because sleeping in a garage makes me a car. Only cars sleep in garages.

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