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Thread: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The issue here is objective review of the Bush Administration and there aren't many here that are objective. That is why it will take time to truly evaluate President Bush as there is too much bias today on both sides. The actual facts from non partisan sources however will play a major role.
    That is indeed a very valuable aim, however, as many historians (especially those with an emphasis in historiography) can tell you through reading a book or conversation with them-it isn't so simple. Historians, to a significant degree, are qualified individuals who are unqualified with the task they are given, and as a result, are often-times fumbling around trying to make it work. We do use partisan sources, we do use those polemical statements, along with memos and "objective analysis" of policy and decision-making...we try to use it all. The problem is, we have to use partisan sources and polemical statements. We are dealing with human beings, and objectifying the perceptions of others who do matter is immensely difficult if not to some certain extent, impossible.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 11-11-10 at 01:12 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am waiting for an answer, how would you feel about a govt. that could have prevented the killing of one of your loved ones but didn't? How do you know that "waterboarding" didn't save a lot of lives and if one of those was someone you loved would it have been worth it?
    One mistake is believing that torture would do that. But what is raping a child a would prevent an attack, would you suggest we do that? Where's your line?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So you have respect now for President Bush?
    Do you read a post before you respond to it, or do you just hit "Reply" and start typing in hopes that what comes out might somehow be related?

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Oh, goodie! Let's start throwing around unsubstantiated accusations in an attempt to derail the argument into the territory of ad hominem! Brilliant!
    I included "perhaps".

    If the poster is against Islamic terrorism then it is easily resolved.

    I'm against shariah law, and Islamic crusades against children, women, Gays, and non Musims.

    What about you?

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Do you read a post before you respond to it, or do you just hit "Reply" and start typing in hopes that what comes out might somehow be related?

    word%20magnets.jpg

    For some reason I'm thinking of magnetic words the hard core republican edition

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It doesn't do that. Both it and the Washington post story, if you look it, say this was claimed, not supported. If you look, you will find that we knew aboutt he second wave before KSm, so his telling us was not new intel, not something we didn't get another way. What they are refering to was tharted before KSM was even captured.

    . . . In a White House press briefing, Bush's counterterrorism chief, Frances Fragos Townsend, told reporters that the cell leader was arrested in February 2002, and "at that point, the other members of the cell" (later arrested) "believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward" [italics mine]. A subsequent fact sheet released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast." that plot was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003.

    The Washington Monthly

    You might also read this:

    If the detainee doesn't immediately respond by giving information, for example he asks: "what do you want to know?" the interviewer will reply: "you know," and walk out of the interrogation room. Then the next step on the force continuum is introduced, for example sleep deprivation, and the process will continue until the detainee's will is broken and he automatically gives up all information he is presumed to know.
    There are many problems with this technique.

    A major problem is that it is ineffective. Al Qaeda terrorists are trained to resist torture. As shocking as these techniques are to us, the al Qaeda training prepares them for much worse – the torture they would expect to receive if caught by dictatorships for example.
    This is why, as we see from the recently released Department of Justice memos on interrogation, the contractors had to keep getting authorization to use harsher and harsher methods, until they reached waterboarding and then there was nothing they could do but use that technique again and again. Abu Zubaydah had to be waterboarded 83 times and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed 183 times. In a democracy there is a glass ceiling of harsh techniques the interrogator cannot breach, and a detainee can eventually call the interrogator's bluff.

    In addition the harsh techniques only serves to reinforce what the detainee has been prepared to expect if captured. This gives him a greater sense of control and predictability about his experience, and strengthens his will to resist.

    A second major problem with this technique is that evidence gained from it is unreliable. There is no way to know whether the detainee is being truthful, or just speaking to either mitigate his discomfort or to deliberately provide false information. As the interrogator isn't an expert on the detainee or the subject matter, nor has he spent time going over the details of the case, the interrogator cannot easily know if the detainee is telling the truth. This unfortunately has happened and we have had problems ranging from agents chasing false leads to the disastrous case of Ibn Sheikh al-Libby who gave false information on Iraq, al Qaeda, and WMD.

    Testimony


    Washington Post Hires Cheneyite Marc Thiessen
    Don't miss this conservative.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I included "perhaps".

    If the poster is against Islamic terrorism then it is easily resolved.

    I'm against shariah law, and Islamic crusades against children, women, Gays, and non Musims.

    What about you?
    What about me? Well, I'm pretty sure none of my relatives are Somali pirates. I won't know for certain until the results of my genealogical DNA test come back, though.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I don't get it, what is it about liberalism that prevents them from admitting when wrong and running from the tough questions. Liberals feel and don't seem to think.
    Considering the polls in Britain which suggest a great many Muslims have at least some sympathy for terrorism, it seems clear that those who do also have loved ones. I''m sure those young Muslims who committed 9/11 had loving families. We have a loving family of Muslim terrorists in Canada.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    What about me? Well, I'm pretty sure none of my relatives are Somali pirates. I won't know for certain until the results of my genealogical DNA test come back, though.
    Ah. so it's on to DNA tests and Somalian pirates now.

    Can you read to the end of this sentence without forgetting what the first part said?

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Ah. so it's on to DNA tests and Somalian pirates now.

    Can you read to the end of this sentence without forgetting what the first part said?
    I'm just taking the Conservative approach at responding to posts. And nectarines are better than peaches because you don't have to shave them first.

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