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Thread: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I believe you're going to have to do better than that if you want to show wrongdoing.
    Maybe I could if your government would come clean about whats happened.

    Innocents have been detained in Gitmo. We know nothing about abuses that have taken place at CIA black sites and especially about the people your government handed over to governments like Syria and Egypt to torture them on your behalf.

    Look. I appreciate you trying to keep me on my toes Harshaw, you ask very good and difficult questions, sometimes I have to back down.

    But this time, you cannot tell me there's no way innocents have been caught in the net. Do you really think the government would get it right 100% of the time?

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Maybe I could if your government would come clean about whats happened.

    Innocents have been detained in Gitmo. We know nothing about abuses that have taken place at CIA black sites and especially about the people your government handed over to governments like Syria and Egypt to torture them on your behalf.

    Look. I appreciate you trying to keep me on my toes Harshaw, you ask very good and difficult questions, sometimes I have to back down.

    But this time, you cannot tell me there's no way innocents have been caught in the net. Do you really think the government would get it right 100% of the time?
    I'm not addressing innocents being swept up in a net. I'm talking about innocents being waterboarded. Three people were waterboarded; they were NOT innocents; the program ended in 2003 and hasn't been used since.

    And, beyond that, I'm referring to innocents being "tortured."

    It's one thing to think of innocents being swept up on the fog of war. That, of course, is entirely possible, even plausible. There were quite a few who were released from Gitmo for that reason.

    But innocents being "tortured"? No. You're going to have to show something more. Considerably more.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 11-09-10 at 05:34 PM.
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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I'm not addressing innocents being swept up in a net. I'm talking about innocents being waterboarded. Three people were waterboarded; they were NOT innocents; the program ended in 2003 and hasn't been used since.

    And, beyond that, I'm referring to innocents being "tortured."

    It's one thing to think of innocents being swept up on the fog of war. That, of course, is entirely possible, even plausible. There were quite a few who were released from Gitmo for that reason.

    But innocents being "tortured"? No. You're going to have to show something more. Considerably more.
    Ok. So if innocents haven't been tortured. Then your government should disclose all records relating to prisoner transport and treatment immediately.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    If it's not torture then why is he still trying to defend the use of waterboarding? It would make far more sense to just pretend it's a non-issue.

    He is playing into the controversy. Enough already. It was questionable at best, and torture at worst. The U.S. has lost all credibility in the detention department.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Ok. So if innocents haven't been tortured. Then your government should disclose all records relating to prisoner transport and treatment immediately.
    This does not constitute evidence of torture.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Unhappy Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalGear View Post
    BBC News - George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Goes to show, its effective to a degree. I'm personally okay with violating the rights of terrorists if it means protecting the right to life of innocent civilians.

    Mr Bush tells the paper: "Damn right!

    "We capture the guy, the chief operating officer of al-Qaeda, who kills 3,000 people.

    We felt he had the information about another attack.

    "He says, 'I'll talk to you when I get my lawyer'. I say, 'What options are available and legal?'
    ]

    I miss having a President who doesn't dance around an issue.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    "Might Save Lives"

    I'm not naive enough to think that its not possible lives has been saved through torture but...

    What about the innocents who get tortured in this manner?
    In Iraq AND Afghanistan, we never fired at anybody who:

    A) Wasn't pointing an AK47 at us or a rocket launcher
    B) Wasn't caught trying to wire up a bomb in the street

    And under 90% of instances we never arrested anybody unless the above criteria was met. So i see very little risk, absolutely minimal risk when taken into account the precautions our men take, that innocents would also be tortured.

    If there was a shadow of a doubt that the men being held are innocent, they wouldn't be held for more than a few days under custody let alone transferred to a special unit to get water-boarded.

    So if there have been cases that i am yet to hear of [of innocents being tortured], then that person is very unlucky.

    But similarly i wouldn't suggest removing prisons just because it holds the risks of locking up an innocent.

    A human rights fundamentalist you may be, you cannot deny that rights DO have a priority over other rights, and i believe an individual's rights violated by torture can be accepted if it means avoiding the violation of a greater right - the right to life of hundreds, maybe thousands of people.
    Last edited by MetalGear; 11-09-10 at 05:46 PM.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The U.S. has lost all credibility in the detention department.
    Is that what your professors say?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Is that what your professors say?
    Do you have a rebuttal or just personal attacks?

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Do you have a rebuttal or just personal attacks?
    It was a question. You made a sweeping assertion with nothing to back it up, so it was a natural one.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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