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Thread: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But this is the number that Obama and Biden are throwing out there as fact. Do you have a problem with that?
    A minor problem. Kind of like how I feel about republicans taking credit for the stock market going up. It's false, but kind of how things work today. I won't defend it, but it does bother me much either.

    Oh, and how exactly do you calculate a "saved" job? By your own standard you said:



    So that is not really a "saved" job, to me it sounds more like a delayed lay off.


    j-mac
    Depends on what happens. For now, that jobs is there, and for those working it, saved. But cuts by the state have made it impossible to accomplish our mission, and we will have to change our mission, having a huge effect on the population here, if something isn't done. The state will now likley do less after the last election, and this will effect students harshly in our area.

    So for those employed and those needing the service, it was a save.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 11-10-10 at 12:29 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That isn't propaganda that is proven fact.
    Says the propagandist.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Did John McCain admit to something that wasn't true or not?
    No clue. Now do you understand that the experiences of a singular individual does not somehow prove that's the experiences for everyone? If there's a singular example of someone that said something truthful during torture would that prove that the ONLY thing torture provides is true information?

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A minor problem. Kind of like how I feel about republicans taking credit for the stock market going up. It's false, but kind of how things work today. I won't defend it, but it does bother me much either.
    But that is different from the reason I started down this path to begin with. You said:

    I don't take anyone's word. I take a look at evidence. I only ask that you do the same. BTW, media is only the method by which something is communicated. By us taking by way of the computer, we're the media.
    Which started me asking the questions I did, and clearly I think, in my humble opinion, that although you may indeed like to see the evidence behind a claim, as I think you would agree we all do. You are willing to give a pass in certain circumstances when none is offered. Is that fair?

    Depends on what happens. For now, that jobs is there, and for those working it, saved.
    Does one need be so short sighted in order for this President to be right?

    But cuts by the state have made it impossible to accomplish our mission, and we will have to change our mission, having a huge effect on the population here, if something isn't done. The state will now likley do less after the last election, and this will effect students harshly in our area.
    Then it sounds as though you can resolve it at the State level. Good, that is how it was intended to be.

    So for those employed and those needing the service, it was a save.
    For today. Do you think that the uncertainty of not knowing whether or not you'll have that "saved" job tomorrow bolsters, and grows the economy, or stagnates it, and makes people fearful?


    j-mac
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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    [QUOTE=j-mac;1059093449]
    But that is different from the reason I started down this path to begin with. You said:



    Which started me asking the questions I did, and clearly I think, in my humble opinion, that although you may indeed like to see the evidence behind a claim, as I think you would agree we all do. You are willing to give a pass in certain circumstances when none is offered. Is that fair?
    A pass, no. I didn't accept it, so there was no pass. We can't fight all fights, so some pick and choose is always going to take palce. However, trying to justify torture, something I see as evil, is much different than fudging numbers on how many jobs were saved. Between the two, I see the torture one as more important to address and argue about.

    Does one need be so short sighted in order for this President to be right?
    No one suggested short sightedness. But there are ususaly short term and long term goals and efforts. Obama made clear the stimulaus was of the short term variety.


    Then it sounds as though you can resolve it at the State level. Good, that is how it was intended to be.
    No, it won't be resolved, not after the election. Things will likely get bad for students, which may insire many to ebcome involved again. We'll see. But the state will nto likely help much.


    For today. Do you think that the uncertainty of not knowing whether or not you'll have that "saved" job tomorrow bolsters, and grows the economy, or stagnates it, and makes people fearful?
    As those people spend and buy, pay their bills and aren't losing their homes, I suspect it helps more than it hurts. For the short term, it has been a positive.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    [QUOTE=Boo Radley;1059093464]
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    A pass, no. I didn't accept it, so there was no pass. We can't fight all fights, so some pick and choose is always going to take palce. However, trying to justify torture, something I see as evil, is much different than fudging numbers on how many jobs were saved. Between the two, I see the torture one as more important to address and argue about.



    No one suggested short sightedness. But there are ususaly short term and long term goals and efforts. Obama made clear the stimulaus was of the short term variety.




    No, it won't be resolved, not after the election. Things will likely get bad for students, which may insire many to ebcome involved again. We'll see. But the state will nto likely help much.




    As those people spend and buy, pay their bills and aren't losing their homes, I suspect it helps more than it hurts. For the short term, it has been a positive.
    Not surprising you didn't answer the question. Was the stimulus program sold on the basis of saving jobs that are state responsibility? how do you know that the states wouldn't have saved those jobs?

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually shows how big a liar and scum bag he is. The British are denying everything he said, and if it stand believing a known liar (Bush) and the Blair/Brown administration and its people, ... well no contest there.
    Here's what the head of MI6 Sir John Sawers said: "If we know or believe action by us will lead to torture taking place, we're required by UK and international law to avoid that action, and we do, even though that allows that terrorist activity to go ahead".

    Very noble, even though there'll be a lot of dead Brits as a result.

    The attitude of George Bush reflects that of the American people, and certainly the now President of the United States.

    "It doesn't matter how people perceive me in England. It just doesn't matter any more. And frankly, at times, it didn't matter then," he said.

    Britain has been the source of terrorism more than once on the United States and we can easily see why.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Here's what the head of MI6 Sir John Sawers said: "If we know or believe action by us will lead to torture taking place, we're required by UK and international law to avoid that action, and we do, even though that allows that terrorist activity to go ahead".

    Very noble, even though there'll be a lot of dead Brits as a result.

    The attitude of George Bush reflects that of the American people, and certainly the now President of the United States.

    "It doesn't matter how people perceive me in England. It just doesn't matter any more. And frankly, at times, it didn't matter then," he said.

    Britain has been the source of terrorism more than once on the United States and we can easily see why.
    GW Bush did what was required to keep this country safe after 9/11. There is only one thing that terrorists fear and that is a strong President of the United States who does anything required to keep the American people safe. I have yet of see any liberal admit when they are wrong on any issue let alone who our enemy is and what their goals are. Thank you, President Bush, for keeping us safe and for being a strong American leader on the issue of national security.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    GW Bush did what was required to keep this country safe after 9/11. There is only one thing that terrorists fear and that is a strong President of the United States who does anything required to keep the American people safe. I have yet of see any liberal admit when they are wrong on any issue let alone who our enemy is and what their goals are. Thank you, President Bush, for keeping us safe and for being a strong American leader on the issue of national security.
    Bush ignored the Aug 6, 2001 PDB "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" and Bust did exactly what bin Laden wanted which was to declare war against Islam.


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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A pass, no. I didn't accept it, so there was no pass. We can't fight all fights, so some pick and choose is always going to take palce.
    So are you saying that you are ideologically driven?

    However, trying to justify torture, something I see as evil, is much different than fudging numbers on how many jobs were saved. Between the two, I see the torture one as more important to address and argue about.
    Justification is something that is human nature. I am sure that many feel that boosting the deficit nearly four times that of any other President for what you yourself term as a "short term" fix is equally disturbing. BTW, can you point to any documentation of torture other than the three men that were water boarded in GITMO that was excused by Bush or his administration?

    No one suggested short sightedness. But there are ususaly short term and long term goals and efforts. Obama made clear the stimulaus was of the short term variety.
    No, that is not quite true is it now? In fact, he touted this as a fix that would keep unemployment under 8% did he not? In fact did he not say that this stimulus was needed to keep America from falling into depression? And then splayed out the spending of this for two years hoping that the fix would hit in time for this election cycle? That's short sighted, not short term is it not?

    No, it won't be resolved, not after the election. Things will likely get bad for students, which may insire many to ebcome involved again. We'll see. But the state will nto likely help much.
    That's a shame. If there were only something that Academia could do themselves to stave off the pain to students. Oh, I see you named only the students, will the staff suffer as well?

    As those people spend and buy, pay their bills and aren't losing their homes, I suspect it helps more than it hurts. For the short term, it has been a positive.
    Again, not a fix then is it? More a band aid, and a Trillion dollar one at that.....I don't know about you, but that isn't what America thought they were getting.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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