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Thread: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please provide specifics of any propaganda that I have provided. The media has changed over the past decade and no longer represents the non partisan fact finding entity it used to be.
    See your post above to me.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Misrepresentations and hyperbole are blowing my mind up in this thread. My god. Please people, your points would be a lot more sound and carry a lot more weight if you didn't either completely over exaggerate them, horribly over simplified them, or didn't use it to push a different bone you have to pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    "Those who trade liberty for security, will end up with neither".
    No need to put something you're paraphrasing into quotes, because that's not what he said. The full quote talks about essential liberty with temporary security and when you look at the ACTUAL quote and you look at the extent of the Patriot Act and its affects it is a much, MUCH more open ended argument then your watered down paraphrase leads it to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Terrorists attacks
    Obama 0 on American home soil.
    Bush 1 heck of one on American soil.
    Which is really somewhat irrelevant unless you're working within a vacuum which would be idiotic to do. When terrorists attacks happen in and of themselves is somewhat ridiculous to use as the baromoter for anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Radical Christianity says the same thing.
    There is however a significantly large difference. Radical Christians by and large do not carry out the wholesale acts of terrorism that are found the world over, nor do they control the countries of governments enforcing their radical rules upon the population. The amount of random and infrequent abortion clinic bombers in the name of, or motivated by, Christianity are dwarfed by the amount of suicide bombers in the name of, or motivated by, Islam. That's not even going into the larger attacks such as 9/11, Madrid, etc. Radical Christians in this country are fighting to get prayer in school and creationism taught, and failing for the most part. Radical Muslims are having homosexuals stoned, christians killed, and children indoctrinated into becoming suicide bombers all through control of the government.

    While yes, extremism in anything can and often will lead to bad things, but lets stop this ridiculous act that today extremist Christianity is anywhere near the same in scope, methods, and capabilities as extremist Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    The only thing torturing does is make people say what ever you want them to say. Ask John McCain about that.
    Actually, that is incorrect. Its considered an inefficient means of interrogation because its as likely, if not more likely, to get you bad information, as they tell you what they think you want to know, as it is to get you good information. HOWEVER, that does not equate to the ONLY THING it gets you is that. It IS possible to get legitimate, actionable, good, true information from enhanced interrogation and even full out torture. This is not a claim that its "right", nor is it claiming its highly effective on its own (quite the contrary actually), but you can't have a legitimate and honest discussion about this kind of stuff if you can't even speak in honest circumstances rather than trumped up hyperbole.

    And while Senator McCain's service to this country is exemplary, and he is a living American Hero, and what he went through was absolutely horrible, he is by no means the absolute authority on Torture.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    There is no question that some jobs were saved but the questions remain was that the role of the stimulus and how it was sold plus could those jobs have been saved without the Federal Govt. doing it? Teachers' jobs are state responsibilities and the states didn't have to find a way to save those jobs as the govt. stepped in and did what they weren't really authorized to do.
    That's your question, not mine. Not what j asked either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #114
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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Much provided by media matters.
    If you say so.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Number seems high to me. But I have no doubt some jobs were saved. I KNOW some where saved here. We have people waiting for the money to end and trying to plan what to do when that money iis all used up.
    But this is the number that Obama and Biden are throwing out there as fact. Do you have a problem with that?

    Oh, and how exactly do you calculate a "saved" job? By your own standard you said:

    ...We have people waiting for the money to end and trying to plan what to do when that money iis all used up.
    So that is not really a "saved" job, to me it sounds more like a delayed lay off.


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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right out of the DNC talking points as if you believe a world McCain says.
    Really? It seems to me, John McCain was a POW and knows what he is talking about.


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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Really? It seems to me, John McCain was a POW and knows what he is talking about.


    So the fact that HE was a POW makes him an expert on what works and what doesn't? Please tell me how you arrive at that conclusion.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Really? It seems to me, John McCain was a POW and knows what he is talking about.

    Are there any other things we did that you can document that constituted torture?

    j-mac
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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, that is incorrect. Its considered an inefficient means of interrogation because its as likely, if not more likely, to get you bad information, as they tell you what they think you want to know, as it is to get you good information. HOWEVER, that does not equate to the ONLY THING it gets you is that. It IS possible to get legitimate, actionable, good, true information from enhanced interrogation and even full out torture. This is not a claim that its "right", nor is it claiming its highly effective on its own (quite the contrary actually), but you can't have a legitimate and honest discussion about this kind of stuff if you can't even speak in honest circumstances rather than trumped up hyperbole.

    And while Senator McCain's service to this country is exemplary, and he is a living American Hero, and what he went through was absolutely horrible, he is by no means the absolute authority on Torture.
    Did John McCain admit to something that wasn't true or not?


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    Re: George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    See your post above to me.
    That isn't propaganda that is proven fact.

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