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Thread: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Or "RAF Bentwaters"

    Just for fun...to give an example of what gets spent...

    In 1988 the military knew it was shutting down RAF Bentwaters. In 1990 congress allocated funding and built...

    A new runway.
    A 12 million dollar jet engine 'hush house' (the only aircraft assigned were A-10's...no hush house required)
    A brand new commissary
    A brand new bowling alley
    A renovated officers club
    600 housing units
    Multiple maintenance and administrative buildings

    in 1992 the base was abandoned and placed in caretaker status.

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I really think that is where Paul is coming from. Well that and probably advocating against interventionist policies. Things that can save us some serious cash. There is a lot of reform and cuts we can make to military spending withing significantly altering the readiness or ability of our military.

    If we really want lower taxes and a more responsible government; then we're going to have to find places to cut spending.
    Dont let this become a habit...but I completely agree. There IS common ground to find and fund cuts. Medicare and medicaid fraud has to be agressively targeted. I think every congressman should be paid 400k a year but from that 400k they have to pay for their staff, rent, any transportation, and must account for every penny over their usual salary. No all expenses paid fact finding junkets to the Bahamas...if they travel they travel commercial...etc. Social Security should be reviewed...we pay billions to non-us citizens simply because they fraudulently obtained SSNs. We have to stop funding frivolous research projects...not that isnt really cool to spend billions to see if there is a difference in the aerodynamic properties of colors...but because dammit right now we just cant afford it. No more bridges to nowhere...no more frivolous federal spending.

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    I don't how to feel about it, but truth is that dealing with the likes if ITT, Boeing, Locheed and Raytheon my entire career, I can tell you that there is much to be cut, if only we concentrated on the fat afforded military contracts. I've NEVER, not once seen the winning supplier for a military bid ever come in under budget. NOT ONCE. And, to the best of my knowledge, cost over runs are eaten by the tax-payer and paid to the supplier anyway. It's sort of a joke actually; so, there is much in the way of criticism of the industry that I agree with. You NEVER see this in the private sector. If you bid a price, you are damned well bound to it, and this is regardless of your costs going up, or whatever reason. Not the problem of the private company, it's yours as the supplier. That's how it should be.

    By feeding the military contractors in this little form of charity (And they all know it goes on) we keep the competition out, small companies that actually would compete on an R&D level with the larger contractors; AND do it under, or at budget. This is the inefficiency of the US Gov't folks.

    So yeah, there is a lot of room to make cuts, if not at first simply holding the suppliers accountable.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I don't how to feel about it, but truth is that dealing with the likes if ITT, Boeing, Locheed and Raytheon my entire career, I can tell you that there is much to be cut, if only we concentrated on the fat afforded military contracts. I've NEVER, not once seen the winning supplier for a military bid ever come in under budget. NOT ONCE. And, to the best of my knowledge, cost over runs are eaten by the tax-payer and paid to the supplier anyway. It's sort of a joke actually; so, there is much in the way of criticism of the industry that I agree with. You NEVER see this in the private sector. If you bid a price, you are damned well bound to it, and this is regardless of your costs going up, or whatever reason. Not the problem of the private company, it's yours as the supplier. That's how it should be.

    By feeding the military contractors in this little form of charity (And they all know it goes on) we keep the competition out, small companies that actually would compete on an R&D level with the larger contractors; AND do it under, or at budget. This is the inefficiency of the US Gov't folks.

    So yeah, there is a lot of room to make cuts, if not at first simply holding the suppliers accountable.


    Tim-
    And how often do those government contractors invent a problem, pitch the solution to a soon to be retiring general, then get awarded a contract to fix a problem that never really existed in the first place (I know...I designed a few fancy black box wing stress solutions for a few of them...)

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Exactly, so rather than getting upset about politicians making a reasonable suggestion, we should be upset at members of the DOD who are putting their pet projects at a higher priority than our troops, and who are holding our pocket books hostage through the ransoming of our troops well being.
    I don't disagree. However, that's not the reality of the situation.

    During the Great Depression, between the two world wars, when the Army didn't have money to feed the cavalry's horses; were they sold? Set free? Given away to good homes? Retired?

    No, they were herded into large pits and hosed down with machine guns.

    Military cuts always come in the form of less housing, fewer bennies and RIF's. The DoD can get rid of a single soldier and literally save millions. They can write a training schedual that has soldiers spending fewer days in the field and save millions more. They can cut down LFX's (live fire excercises) down to one a year, per unit and save even more millions in ammunition, fuel and spare parts.

    Weapons and vehicles cost money to purchase and maintain. The less they're used, the less maintanance that has to be done and the more longevity they have. If they're not being used, then soldiers aren't being trained. When soldiers hit the battlefield, with less training, more soldiers die.

    During the prep up for WW2, US Army soldiers were training with wooden rifles.

    Let's not forget, that as the military draws down, there will be more work load transferred to national gaurd units; like the infamous roundout brigades of the 90's. The results from that will be even more part time soldiers deployed to foreign battlefields.

    Perhaps not you, but I'm sure that there are folks on this thread, who support military budget cuts, but were livid when national gaurd soldiers were deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Those same folks would be beside themselves, if there were a draft. Conscription is certainly something to look forward to, when bean counters start taking an ax to the DoD's budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Because you just claim stuff to be true which isn't? Go ahead, document your claim, show that you are right.
    Anyone that was actually in the military, during a draw down, can support what I'm saying. According to your accounts, one of those people would be you. Yet, you seem to think I'm lieing. Again, why is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Cutting Military spending so that perhaps, instead of obliterating some 3rd World Country with 10 Stealth bombers, maybe just 5 might suffice.


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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Anyone that was actually in the military, during a draw down, can support what I'm saying. According to your accounts, one of those people would be you. Yet, you seem to think I'm lieing. Again, why is that?
    You are of course correct and the fact is that the draw-downs usually end up gutting the midterm career NCO force and creates a leadership vacuum that takes decades to fix. It doesnt HAVE to be that way. The force structure can and should remain intact (yes...INCLUDING those 10 stealth bombers). What needs to be gutted is the waste...and lord knows there is a ton of it.

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Anyone that was actually in the military, during a draw down, can support what I'm saying. According to your accounts, one of those people would be you. Yet, you seem to think I'm lieing. Again, why is that?
    If I thought what you said was a lie, I would have said that. I think you are wrong, because I was in the military during a drawdown, and they did find ways to cut the military without reducing readiness. Being wrong does not mean you are lying, only mistaken.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Cutting Military spending so that perhaps, instead of obliterating some 3rd World Country with 10 Stealth bombers, maybe just 5 might suffice.

    What if we get into a war where we need 10 stealth bombers and only have 5? Then what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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