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Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts

Being wrong(believing things not true) does not mean you are lying, only that you are not right. I gave examples of ways that can and have cut military spending without reducing training or readiness.
 
I have a question for those that have been in the military for a good while.
Not sure I know how to get this across right but I'll try.

I have seen stories where we pay people (in Afghanistan for instance) to not do things that fund the Taliban such as not growing drug crops. This from what I read is a lot of money, does it work?

We also pay bribes in other ways too.

We pay say one tribe in money and supplies to fight against another for our side. Does that work?

I'm sure someone here knows what I am talking about.

We paid the Imams for decades to not cause religious strife in Iran. It worked quite well until they decided to stop. Dollar diplomacy is used frequently. Sometimes it opens doors. Sometimes it creates positive and lasting relationships. Sometimes it blows up in our face.

(BTW...you might refer to it as something much more dirty...politics. The same thing happens in congress daily)
 
Did someone seriously just suggest that Paul is "not a conservative" because he's for:

1. Reducing the size of government
2. Reducing the amount of money government spends

Yeah, you're absolutely right. What a ****ing kookball. What conservative stands for those things. Jesus, Paul, why couldn't you just be a conservative and for conservative principles.

I have heard it all before, right here on this forum. LMAO.

But I say this: Those who are the quickest to brand others as not real Conservatives need to look in the mirror and make the same accusations to themselves. Of course, cutting and eventually balancing the budget IS a Conservative issue. Those who refuse to include military spending are not Conservatives either, but Neocons, which is the antithesis to Conservatism. We saw this when Bush was president. For those of you who supported Bush, but then stopped drinking the Kool-Aid, I applaud you. But bear in mind, I was bashing Bush when bashing Bush wasn't cool, and it earned me a lot of scorn from some of the very same people who bash him now.

So let's cut to the nitty gritty - What can be cut from the military?

1) Star wars, which has never worked, except under condititions in which we so laboratory-like, that it couldn't help but shoot down missiles. Under real conditions, it wouldn't stand a chance. That's billions right there.

2) The Leopard 2 tank, which is extremely expensive. And guess what? The Taliban has no tanks at all. Why do we need this?

3) The F-22 fighter jets, which the Pentagon itself said it didn't want.

4) The V-22 Osprey, which Dick Cheney himself said was "A turkey".

5) The F-35 Expeditionary vehicle, which is another money waster, but exists because the manufacturing plant is in Barney Frank's district.

6) The Gerald Ford class of aircraft carriers, which need a whole fleet of destroyers and other support ships just to protect them. You are talking about 50 billion alone here.

[rant]
This is just a start, but what do we do next? We take the words of Dwight D. Eisenhower to heart and just tell the military-industrial complex to shut their ****ing pie holes, and that, from now on, they aren't getting squat. These programs of wasted money are not in the best interests of America, but in the interests of corporate welfare queens instead. Welfare queens who wave the flag and spew fake patriotism, while counting the money they are making by ripping off the taxpayers, and doing their part to screw the economy and the budget. Cut the programs, and if these CEOs don't like it, then maybe they need to get a real job, and work for a living, for the first time in their miserable ****ing lives.
[/rant]
 
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I don't disagree. However, that's not the reality of the situation.

Here's the thing, for me to honestly consider myself principled I gotta be consistent. Your "that's not the reality of the situation" is the same argument democrats use to say that we need to have tax increases, because while sure tax cuts plus spending cuts helps the deficit, reality is that spending cuts will never happen. And much like I tell them "The only reason reality is what that way is because we continue to function, vote, and hold them to standards based on said reality. If we don't demand reality to change, it never will".

So if the military budget gets cut by a small amount and the military tries to screw with necessary items for the troops then we as citizens need to rise up and say "no, get rid of your pet projects, get rid of some of the possible 'luxuries', and stop cutting basic necessities for the soldiers to try and strong arm us into giving you more of our money"
 
Dan, most of your list is pretty good except the last. All carriers are part of a battle group, with screening ships for defense. The Ford class is a needed upgrade on a 35 year old design. Things like steam catapults are outdated, and the more modern electronic navy needs a new design to accommodate those electronics through a ship. Further, we need a new design for the f-35C. Carriers are inherently expensive, but they provide an absolute ton for the money. The next big military action, it will be a carrier that is first on station, and has been the first on station consistently.
 
Ok! First things first: thank you for your service.

The fact that you're a butter-bar explains alot about your attitude. A word to the wise, that, "I know it all and everyone else is a dumbass", attitude you're sporting, will be the beginning and the end of your career. That's coming from an 11M/B40-H, with PLDC, BNCOC, ANCOC and 1SC under his belt; for what it's worth.

When you get to a line unit and the drawdown takes place, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.


It takes one to know one I guess. And yes I served too.
 
Intelligence spending is very small compared to defense, SS and Medicare. We need to rely less on military and more on intelligence to fight terrorism.

This is untrue. Since 2001 the intelligence community has balooned so much that the government even has trouble keeping track of all the various organizations within it. People can bitch about the bureacracies involved in our other branches all they want, but none is nearly as much of a cluster **** as our intelligence community. It has actually slowed down information gathering and acting on information due to how massive it is.
 
Very true statement, JohnWOlin as detailed in the book, "Your Government Failed You," by Richard A. Clarke, former Deputy Asst Secretary for Intell, Asst Secretary of State and Nat'l Coord. for Security and Counter-terrorism.

Per his book, Clarke estimates that U.S. Intelligence agencies - Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), FBI, DEA, Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS), the Nat'l Counter-Intelligence Center (NCTC; now known as the Terrorist Threat Integration Center or TTIC)), the Nat'l Recon Office (NRO) which conduct satelite intel and analyze the images, and the Nat'l Clandestine Service (NCS) who gathers the human intelligence - spend a combined total well in excess of $50 billion/annually. All to tell us there "might be" something amist "over there" we don't know enough about if we know anything about it at all. But in the interest of "national security"...
 
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Ok! First things first: thank you for your service.

The fact that you're a butter-bar explains alot about your attitude. A word to the wise, that, "I know it all and everyone else is a dumbass", attitude you're sporting, will be the beginning and the end of your career. That's coming from an 11M/B40-H, with PLDC, BNCOC, ANCOC and 1SC under his belt; for what it's worth.

When you get to a line unit and the drawdown takes place, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

Advice to all young lts and captains...OIC does NOT mean you are in charge. Find your most senior and trusted NCO...attach yourself to his hip and follow, listen, observe...and anytime he tells you something your one and only response SHOULD be "Oh!...I see..." Do that and you might make a pretty decent "leader of men."
 
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Here's the thing, for me to honestly consider myself principled I gotta be consistent. Your "that's not the reality of the situation" is the same argument democrats use to say that we need to have tax increases, because while sure tax cuts plus spending cuts helps the deficit, reality is that spending cuts will never happen. And much like I tell them "The only reason reality is what that way is because we continue to function, vote, and hold them to standards based on said reality. If we don't demand reality to change, it never will".

So if the military budget gets cut by a small amount and the military tries to screw with necessary items for the troops then we as citizens need to rise up and say "no, get rid of your pet projects, get rid of some of the possible 'luxuries', and stop cutting basic necessities for the soldiers to try and strong arm us into giving you more of our money"


I never said anything about screwing with, "necessities".

I said that the DoD will cut things like, bonuses, soldier pay, dependent housing, troop strengths. The most expensive part of the military, are the troops. As I said before, the quickest and easiest way to cut costs in the military, is to have fewer soldiers. The quickest and easiest way to cut down the number of soldiers, other than just running people off, is to cut out the bells and whistles thereby encouraging soldiers to get out of the service.

Soldiers are going to eat, have a roof over their heads, be issued uniforms--the necessities.

However, when the defense budget is cut, everything gets cut across the board--bells and whistles for the soldiers, R&D, training, everything.

When the bells and whistles are cut, soldiers are there, simply because they want to be there, not because their going to end their four-year tour, totally debt free, or because they're getting a bought and paid for college education.

When R&D gets cut, all the super-duper-ass-kickin' weapons systems that makes the United States military the best armed fighting force in the history of the world, may not be there. Ask yourself: how much did it cost to develope the AT-4 anti-tank weapon? The M-60 machine gun? The M-1 main battle tank? The M-2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle? The Patriot anti-missile missile system? The M-40 sniper rifle? The M-24 sniper rifle? All tried-n-true weapons systems that allow our soldiers to do, "more damage, in less time than the enemy", to, show up, "the firstest, with the mostest", which is the single most important objective of warfare. The M-40 and the M-24, by themselves, ran into the millions.

It's real easy to say, "we're going to get rid of the bad **** and keep the good ****", but that just ain't the way it works. The motis operandi that I described in an earlier post has been used in this country for more than 200 years, now. In 1996, when I got married, took my new bride to Germany and there was no post housing available at the Baumholder Kaserne and we had to pay out the ass--more than what our BAQ covered--to rent a ****hole apartment, off post, where the hell were you?? Didn't see ya'll risin' up then!!!

The long and the short of it, is that when American sons and daughters are coming home in body bags, everyone suddenly gives a **** about our service members. Any other time, ya'll don't know and ya'll don't care.
 
Advice to all young lts and captains...OIC does NOT mean you are in charge. Find your most senior and trusted NCO...attach yourself to his hip and follow, listen, observe...and anytime he tells you something your one and only response SHOULD be "Oh!...I see..." Do that and you might make a pretty decent "leader of men."

The reason that I was an E-7 (promotable to E-8), at age 30, was because I had an inate ability to recognize the people who were smarter, more experienced and more knowledgable that myself and exploit that intelligence, experience and knowledge.
 
The reason that I was an E-7 (promotable to E-8), at age 30, was because I had an inate ability to recognize the people who were smarter, more experienced and more knowledgable that myself and exploit that intelligence, experience and knowledge.

Hell, I was raised by old Navy chiefs. Old school old Navy chiefs...the kind that wouldnt talk to an officer unless they were O-5s and above...LOTS of lessons learned...and I didnt fit in very well with the 'new' military...

When discussing the military cuts...your tier...(mine too) the E-5 through E-8s...those were the ones most directly impacted. Left a massive hole and leadership void that I dont know we have EVER recovered from...
 
Rand Paul is a true Republican just like his daddy. Many Republicans have become independents during the Bush administration because of the out of control spending and neo-conservative foreign policies. We can start by shutting down bases in Europe and cutting out excess and wasteful spending in the DOD.
 
Rand Paul is a true Republican just like his daddy. Many Republicans have become independents during the Bush administration because of the out of control spending and neo-conservative foreign policies. We can start by shutting down bases in Europe and cutting out excess and wasteful spending in the DOD.

If we shut down bases in Europe, it will mean that American soldiers who are wounded on a foreign battlefield, will have to be flown all the way back to the states for extended medical care. That will end up costing soldiers's lives.
 
If we shut down bases in Europe, it will mean that American soldiers who are wounded on a foreign battlefield, will have to be flown all the way back to the states for extended medical care. That will end up costing soldiers's lives.

Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who are wounded are only being treated in a handful of the 100+ military bases we have established overseas.
 
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Wrong and a really bad idea, and I guess Paul is not Conservative.

1232903709_samuelljackson-badassmofo.gif
 
If we shut down bases in Europe, it will mean that American soldiers who are wounded on a foreign battlefield, will have to be flown all the way back to the states for extended medical care. That will end up costing soldiers's lives.

haha I've seen it all now.

your golden calf does it all! It actually saves us in medical costs, and lives. all hail the golden calf!
 
Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who are wounded are only being treated in a handful of the 100+ military bases we have established overseas.

Just imagine if those bases weren't there.
 
haha I've seen it all now.

your golden calf does it all! It actually saves us in medical costs, and lives. all hail the golden calf!

So, saving soldiers lives isn't important, anymore?
 
Not a very popular position to take, but you know what? I completely agree with him. The defense lobby is going to go nuts over this, but Rand Paul knows the obvious - Our defense spending is equal to that of the next 27 nations combined, and that, my friends, is ridiculous.

Yes, put defense spending on the table, and give that group of corporate welfare queens a kick in the nuts too.

Article is here.

Not before 25% cut in entitlements. That's right, force old timers to eat dog food. Then, AND ONLY THEN, will we cut defense.
 
Not before 25% cut in entitlements. That's right, force old timers to eat dog food. Then, AND ONLY THEN, will we cut defense.
You ever price dog food? :2razz:
What will it take to cut military spending? When YOU have to eat the dog food......
We could cut the army and marines ground troops by half just by getting out of foreign countries, even those that are "unstable". If it means gasoline going up to $6 a gallon, it would be the smart thing to do....
 
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