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Thread: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

  1. #101
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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But now truth will be defined by the courts, in whom you appear to have a great deal of trust. The people's selection will not count. The courts will look at a single issue in determining the outcome of an election and the people's choice be damned.

    I can hear the wheels grinding already as to which political party will control the Courts and then, thusly, The Truth!

    Opinions will now also be based on The Truth and The Truth, in this case, will surely not set you free.
    It takes a great deal of evidence to prove libel, this case in the UK was the first in around 100, years, the person in question left a trail of evidence stating he was going to lie about his opponent as a means to win the election ( he stated it was the only way for him to win


    Lets say both of us were opponents running for the same MP seat. Two days before the election I get a young girl to state publically you molested her, you dont have the time to disprove the accusation, and the public who would have voted for you, either vote for me or dont vote. I win the election due to the accusation. Would that not be a subversion of democracy to a far greater extend rather then the courts throwing out the results and having a new byelection for the riding?
    Conservatives believe that the government is incompetent, and seek to elect people who will ensure it is

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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It takes a great deal of evidence to prove libel, this case in the UK was the first in around 100, years, the person in question left a trail of evidence stating he was going to lie about his opponent as a means to win the election ( he stated it was the only way for him to win


    Lets say both of us were opponents running for the same MP seat. Two days before the election I get a young girl to state publically you molested her, you dont have the time to disprove the accusation, and the public who would have voted for you, either vote for me or dont vote. I win the election due to the accusation. Would that not be a subversion of democracy to a far greater extend rather then the courts throwing out the results and having a new byelection for the riding?
    There are extreme cases which can make any law seem appealing and reasonable.
    It's not "tolerance" if you already approve of what you purport to "tolerate."

  3. #103
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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    There are extreme cases which can make any law seem appealing and reasonable.
    Yes there are

    But would not lies about your opponent that cause the public not to vote for your opponent be a subversion of democracy.
    Conservatives believe that the government is incompetent, and seek to elect people who will ensure it is

  4. #104
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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So a guy is legally stripped of his position for "lying," pursuant to a law, and that has "nothing to do with the government."
    Of course this Government has nothing to do with it.

    Jesus Christ, the legislation used is way over a century old. This has nothing to do with the Government but the Courts unless an attempt is made to repeal the law (which won't ever happen)

    I have no sympathy for him. I actually find it quite entertaining observing him disgraced, stripped of his seat, banned from public office, career ruined and bankrupt


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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Yes there are

    But would not lies about your opponent that cause the public not to vote for your opponent be a subversion of democracy.
    The public has a responsibility to keep itself informed and to scrutinize anything any politician says. And, as you cannot know the mind of anyone who's voting, you don't know if the lie affected the outcome anyway.

    Under this rule, using this standard, Obama could be removed from office for saying that McCain said he'd be fine with 100 years of war. McCain never said that. So, Obama lied.

    But there's no way in hell I would ever support such a thing.
    It's not "tolerance" if you already approve of what you purport to "tolerate."

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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Of course this Government has nothing to do with it.

    Jesus Christ, the legislation used is way over a century old. This has nothing to do with the Government but the Courts unless an attempt is made to repeal the law (which won't ever happen)
    Who cares when it was enacted?

    1) I said "the government"; as the English/British government has been continuous since 1066 (save for the brief Interregnum), this word game that today's government is somehow not "the government" is silly, and

    2) It doesn't matter anyway, because it's "THIS government" which heard the case and made the determination, not the government of 100 years ago.


    I have no sympathy for him. I actually find it quite entertaining observing him disgraced, stripped of his seat, banned from public office, career ruined and bankrupt
    He, personally, doesn't matter.
    It's not "tolerance" if you already approve of what you purport to "tolerate."

  7. #107
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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Who cares when it was enacted?

    1) I said "the government"; as the English/British government has been continuous since 1066 (save for the brief Interregnum), this word game that today's government is somehow not "the government" is silly, and

    2) It doesn't matter anyway, because it's "THIS government" which heard the case and made the determination, not the government of 100 years ago.

    He, personally, doesn't matter.
    No Government "HEARS" a case. That falls on the Judiciary, our Courts! The Government is not allowed to interfere with cases.


  8. #108
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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    The legislation used is neither old nor unclear. From the article in the OP:

    " The case was brought under Section 106 of the Representation of the People Act (1983) which makes it an offence for anyone to publish "any false statement of fact in relation to the candidate's personal character or conduct" to prevent them being elected "unless he can show that he had reasonable grounds for believing, and did believe, that statement to be true".

    He was found guilty of so publishing, with ample evidence that he knew the claims to be false. This automatically makes his victory null and void and a by-election follows to fill the vacant seat. This is more democratic than giving it to the runner-up.
    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

    Trumpery: Anything calculated to deceive by false show; anything externally splendid, but intrinsically of little value; worthless finery.

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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The public has a responsibility to keep itself informed and to scrutinize anything any politician says. And, as you cannot know the mind of anyone who's voting, you don't know if the lie affected the outcome anyway.

    Under this rule, using this standard, Obama could be removed from office for saying that McCain said he'd be fine with 100 years of war. McCain never said that. So, Obama lied.
    But there's no way in hell I would ever support such a thing.
    Would that lie pass over into the arena of being libelous?
    Conservatives believe that the government is incompetent, and seek to elect people who will ensure it is

  10. #110
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    Re: MP stripped of his Parliamentary seat by court

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Would that lie pass over into the arena of being libelous?
    It could, though the standard for libel as used against a public figure is quite high. If the standard were that for a non-public figure, it very well could.

    It could also have had considerable impact on how people vote.
    It's not "tolerance" if you already approve of what you purport to "tolerate."

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