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Results of Obama's India Trip

Whovian said:
there's a lot of supposition in those statements. Without something to back them up, that's pretty much all you have there... supposition.

If this was going to result in an increase in sales, why did Harley just recently sign contracts with it's union that will result on hundreds of layoffs? In fact, the Kansas City plant has laid off 400-500 people in the last few years. You think they'd want to gain back some of those jobs here in the states. Instead, they will be sending them to India.

Hardball for Harley
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If you read that article, Harley is still keeping the jobs in America, but shifting them from Kansas to York, it's in the first paragraph.

Harley-Davidson is calling for concessions from its workers at the Motor Company’s Kansas City plant. The Kansas City Star reports that without changes to the labor contract, H-D has said it may have to move KC operations to its facilities in York, Pennsylvania.
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spud_meister said:
Who do you think is building the bikes the Indians assemble?

And I suggest reading the CNN article in the OP
Obama announced Saturday that about 54,000 U.S. jobs will be created by $10 billion in new contracts for the Indian government and private companies here to buy a slew of American products, including jet airplanes from Boeing as well as engines and gas turbine technology from General Electric.
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I trust his job numbers a whole bunch... based on his job numbers for the Magical Mystery Stimulus package. You know, all those created jobs... um, saved or created jobs...um, etc etc etc.

"So far, the Recovery Act is responsible for the jobs of about 2 million Americans who would otherwise be unemployed. ... [And] the Recovery Act is on track to save or create another 1.5 million jobs in 2010."
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Do tell... in India, no doubt... cuase they sure aint here.
 
spud_meister said:
If you read that article, Harley is still keeping the jobs in America, but shifting them from Kansas to York, it's in the first paragraph.
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Tell that to the ones who lose those jobs in KC, I'm sure they will feel all warm and fuzzy.

You also failed to address the jobs Harley HAS cut in the last few years.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Regardless of this.

Would you in the interests of fairness and "objectivity" you accused me of not having earlier. Recant your false statements regarding the costs of obamas trip?

Or do you wish to continue propagating this falsity?

Just wondering. Or was this the part that you restored honor?
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Clintons trip to India cost 50 mill 14 years ago. He had half the people traveling with him and the security cost at least a quarter of what it costs now considering 9/11 and the new threats of terrorism. So using just the 50 million for a 5 days trip then and what it would cost now with fuel, personal, Obama ability to spend like a drunken sailor in Singapore on stupid ****, I would have to put the total cost of Obama's trip at or around 300 million.

Does America have 300 million to waste on a trip that will not benefit Americans and our economy? Its wasteful and useless trip where OUR MONEY, YES OUR, could be spent helping Americans not Indians.
 
spud_meister said:
Who do you think is building the bikes the Indians assemble?

And I suggest reading the CNN article in the OP
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Given Obama's history of wildly inflating the job-creating effect of his actions, I don't put much faith in those unfounded claims.
 
spud_meister said:
Who do you think is building the bikes the Indians assemble?

And I suggest reading the CNN article in the OP
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"Obama announced" and you believe a word out of his mouth? When it happens I will believe it but his numbers and the announcements on creating jobs here in American has some serious credibility issues. Esp after telling this whopper, "my stimulus plan has lowered unemployment figures and creating or saved over 2.5 million jobs". Then you have to wonder why people like you still believe him after the majority of Americans just voted against his party partly because of this lie and their support of it.

I believe it was P.T Barnum once said, " There is a sucker is born every minute"
 
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Whovian said:
Tell that to the ones who lose those jobs in KC, I'm sure they will feel all warm and fuzzy.

You also failed to address the jobs Harley HAS cut in the last few years.
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It has cut jobs in the last few years due to a fall in sales(according to this 2009 article), if it successfully breaches the Indian markets, it could start turning a profit, and stop firing people.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Regardless of this.

Would you in the interests of fairness and "objectivity" you accused me of not having earlier. Recant your false statements regarding the costs of obamas trip?

Or do you wish to continue propagating this falsity?

Just wondering. Or was this the part that you restored honor?
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Do you have figures to show what the trip costs? Obama denies it cost that much but will not say what it costs.
 
Heavy Duty said:
"Obama announced" and you believe a word out of his mouth? When it happens I will believe it but his numbers and the announcements on creating jobs here in American has some serious credibility issues. Esp after telling this whopper, "my stimulus plan will lower unemployment figures and creating over a million new jobs". Then you have to wonder why people like you still believe him after the majority of Americans just voted against his party partly because of this lie and their support of it.

I believe it was P.T Barnum once said, " There is a sucker is born every minute"
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Well you either find a more credible estimate or wait for the outcome, and pick up the debate then, your choice.
 
spud_meister said:
Who do you think is building the bikes the Indians assemble?

And I suggest reading the CNN article in the OP
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What does created mean. Laid off workers called back or new hires. Calling back workers is not creating jobs. It is restoring lost jobs.
 
spud_meister said:
It has cut jobs in the last few years due to a fall in sales(according to this 2009 article), if it successfully breaches the Indian markets, it could start turning a profit, and stop firing people.
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So now layoffs is firing?
 
spud_meister said:
No. Do you have a more accurate figure for the amount of jobs this will create? Yes, or no.
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Which is why we find his claims dubious at best in this case. He has a poor track record of job estimates.

I have no more idea of the 'real' numbers in this case than you do. The difference is... I am not willing to take the Presidents word for the accuracy of the numbers, and you are.
 
spud_meister said:
If you have a more accurate figure, please share.
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Not sure how this is really a response to what I said. Obama is making a claim that cannot be proven or disproven at this stage (if at all). What do you expect me to offer as "more accurate" numbers?

If he claimed that this trip would result in 500,000 new jobs, would you believe it?
 
Firstly, whats all the hankering about Harley Davidson motorcycles? Does anyone really expect the President, or any President, to be able to convince another nation into a one-sided trade deal which only benefits the US?

Secondly from my understand the Harley Davidson deal only creates jobs. American workers in the US will be creating the parts which will then be shipped to India for assembly. The assembly process that will take part in India, NEVER WAS DONE IN THE UNITED STATES. Its not jobs going to India, its new jobs being created in India, but at the same time creating new jobs in the US because Harley Davidson know has to hire more workers to make new parts. So in the end both India and the US win.

Now I'm aware that Harley Davidson does assemble bikes in the US, I'm simply talking about the additional bikes that will be produced by Harley globally, those additional jobs have never existed in the US. So there is no loss for us on that part.
 
Wiseone said:
Firstly, whats all the hankering about Harley Davidson motorcycles? Does anyone really expect the President, or any President, to be able to convince another nation into a one-sided trade deal which only benefits the US?

Secondly from my understand the Harley Davidson deal only creates jobs. American workers in the US will be creating the parts which will then be shipped to India for assembly. The assembly process that will take part in India, NEVER WAS DONE IN THE UNITED STATES. Its not jobs going to India, its new jobs being created in India, but at the same time creating new jobs in the US because Harley Davidson know has to hire more workers to make new parts. So in the end both India and the US win.

Now I'm aware that Harley Davidson does assemble bikes in the US, I'm simply talking about the additional bikes that will be produced by Harley globally, those additional jobs have never existed in the US. So there is no loss for us on that part.
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This deal was done beforehand. It did not happen today. This is not a result of this costly over priced trip.
 
Whovian said:
there's a lot of supposition in those statements. Without something to back them up, that's pretty much all you have there... supposition.

If this was going to result in an increase in sales, why did Harley just recently sign contracts with it's union that will result on hundreds of layoffs? In fact, the Kansas City plant has laid off 400-500 people in the last few years. You think they'd want to gain back some of those jobs here in the states. Instead, they will be sending them to India.

Hardball for Harley
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"Workers of the world unite" is the cry of marxist revolutionaries and former head of SEIU, Andy Stern.
You'd think things like this would start to worry the union workers here. They need to wake up and smell the coffee.... or should I say tea? :twocents:
 
Whovian, you seem to forget that both the U.S. and India operate in a capitalist system. A Harley will only sell if it can compete in the market. India has high taxes on importing complete products, in addition to significantly cheaper labor costs. Building a Harley in the U.S. and shipping it to India is going to be extremely expensive. Nobody will buy the over-priced bikes and Harley will have to lay even more people off. Selling parts to be assembled in India is the best possible outcome under the given circumstances.
 
Whovian said:
Tell that to the ones who lose those jobs in KC, I'm sure they will feel all warm and fuzzy.

You also failed to address the jobs Harley HAS cut in the last few years.
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And that is the fault of Obama helping in securing the deal for final assembly of motorcycles in India from kits made in the US?

Or how about, the overheat boom in housing causing to many people to take out home equity lines of credit to buy toys like HD motorcycles, which when that bubble burst caused a drastic decrease in demand for its bikes. This deal is a positive for HD and the american worker
 
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