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U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

BA Environmental Studies, Florida International University
MSc International Environmental Science, Lund University Sweden (specializing in development agriculture)
PhD Interdisciplinary Ecology (economics, sociology and ecology to understand and analyze technology dissemination in developing agricultural systems), UF (go Gators)

Before that I was a paratrooper, D Co. 3/505th PIR 82nd Abn (does that count as international relations? :)

Now, as much as I enjoy myself being the topic of conversation (and I truly do), let's just say that I am, in fact, a decent, intelligent and educated person. I excuse your ignorant ad hom, and let's have a nice day.

Regarding the avatar, I like green and blue. Shrug.
 
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Before that I was a paratrooper, D Co. 3/505th PIR 82nd Abn (does that count as international relations?:)
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Heh, almost.... but if they taught you IR theres to great a risk of defection. :lol:
 
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Infinite Chaos said:
Sorry but this is misleading. France does send troops in and has done with places like CAR (Central African Republic) to remove a dictator. However very few Western Nations (including the US and many European nations) have a good record in Africa. Patrice Lumumba was assassinated in what many there believed was a CIA plot and with him went the hopes of many across Africa. He was left wing at the wrong time but he also (like some others) offered peaceful alternatives to some of the dictators placed there by the US as part of its cold war with the USSR.

If you travel across Africa or have any contacts - you will find that China has been working hard to build bridges with many African nations and nobody in the West can match what is happening.

As for Monsanto and Elf - I give you the horrible alternative of Congo and all the looting and rape that has happened there. Neither the US nor Europe can hold their heads up high regarding what has happened in Africa.
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It's because of posts like this that I simply refuse to give much thought to European talks about having a better human rights record than the U.S. but as long as we're actually on the topic of Patrice Lumumba and the Congo, it's never even been proven that the CIA had any connections whatsoever to his murder other than having knowledge of the fact. Belgium did too. As a matter of fact, Belgium admitted that its government had played an active and I quote 'moral' role in the whole matter. Never you mind the Belgium government was informed at all times what the situation of Lumumba was by members of the military.

But let's go on shall we?

All this talk about alternatives to the rape and violence in the Congo. Really? Europe is providing alternatives to the mess created by Europe in the 1960s? Which European country kept the Congo under cultural and economic slavery up until it granted it 'independence'? The product of one of Belgium's few exploits in colonization, the Congo was 'granted' independence in the 1960s. Never you mind that King Bauduin had arranged it so that many European companies had overwhelming monopolies on most industries in the country. Never you mind that the colonization process was so ingrained the Congolese mind that when it was granted independence, only a handful of the country's citizens had any actual knowledge which would give them any kind of chance at running the country properly.

But please, misleading? If anything it is your European apologies which are misleading.

It's no secret that European multinational companies fuel conflicts and fund dictatorships. France and England have been fighting dirty little wars in Africa ever since they granted independence to most of their African colonies. They have installed dictatorships, funded murderous rebel groups, fueled strife. This isn't even a secret. It's public knowledge. As far as France removing dictators, and I assume you mean Patasse, all I have to say is: Really? Is 'sending troops' what you call when you wait until a democratically elected President leaves so that local rebels can be installed? Is that what you call losing the support of France to the extent that the only way France can intervene is by deposing him? Is that the record we're all supposed to look at in awe? Well alright France.

Don't even get get me started on Dacko. Do you know why Dacko was deposed? He eliminated the monopoly of the French of CAR's diamond mines. That did not fly well with France. So after initially supporting him, France decided that it had to depose him and replace him with Kolingba. When Kolingba turned sour on the French, he had to be deposed too. The CAR by African standards is probably one of the region's most tame situations so unlike Nigeria, which inherited a lack of record keeping from its British masters, it's easy to find out just how deep European hands go.

Seriously, the U.S. has nothing on Europe when it comes to human rights violations.
 
ecofarm said:
BA Environmental Studies, Florida International University
MSc International Environmental Science, Lund University Sweden (specializing in development agriculture)
PhD Interdisciplinary Ecology (economics, sociology and ecology to understand and analyze technology dissemination in developing agricultural systems), UF (go Gators)

Before that I was a paratrooper, D Co. 3/505th PIR 82nd Abn (does that count as international relations? :)

Now, as much as I enjoy myself being the topic of conversation (and I truly do), let's just say that I am, in fact, a decent, intelligent and educated person.
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But my friend, are you not doing yourself a grave injustice? You omitted to mention your most outstandingly attractive attribute - self-effacing modesty.:lol:
 
Hatuey said:
It's because of posts like this that I simply refuse to give much thought to European talks about having a better human rights record than the U.S.
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The US has a record of human rights violations, as has every other developed society on earth. Irrespective of personal opinions of individuals involved with the UN Human Rights Council, the premise that this record should not be examined is flawed. The US government decision to submit this record to examination, indicates it is a civilised society governed by the rule of law (both domestic and international,) and to do any less would indicate something else.
 
The U.S. came in 28th this year in Transparency International's rating system I believe.
 
I believe the US came 467th in Jealous Butthole Survey System.




-----

#1, baby. #1

Don't forget.


If you want to dial US, press +1...



Can I get a "USA!" ?
 
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I dont get whats the point of this action? 0-0
 
Leo said:
The US has a record of human rights violations, as has every other developed society on earth. Irrespective of personal opinions of individuals involved with the UN Human Rights Council, the premise that this record should not be examined is flawed. The US government decision to submit this record to examination, indicates it is a civilised society governed by the rule of law (both domestic and international,) and to do any less would indicate something else.
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Who is going to judge the US record and how iwill they compare it to others? Any country on the UNHRC? I don't think so.

This is just an opportunity for more anti American, and anti Democracy, propaganda and while most can see though this effort it's still amazing that there are so many who continue to fall for it. BHO is, of course, a goofy ideologue who will fall for any of that crap.He is a disgrace.
 
ecofarm said:
BA Environmental Studies, Florida International University
MSc International Environmental Science, Lund University Sweden (specializing in development agriculture)
PhD Interdisciplinary Ecology (economics, sociology and ecology to understand and analyze technology dissemination in developing agricultural systems), UF (go Gators)

Before that I was a paratrooper, D Co. 3/505th PIR 82nd Abn (does that count as international relations? :)

Now, as much as I enjoy myself being the topic of conversation (and I truly do), let's just say that I am, in fact, a decent, intelligent and educated person. I excuse your ignorant ad hom, and let's have a nice day.

Regarding the avatar, I like green and blue. Shrug.
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HHB Divarty 82nd Airborne myself.

:thumbs:
 
Orion said:
The U.S. came in 28th this year in Transparency International's rating system I believe.
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We must be careful of these NGO's with alternative agendas. Also providing briefs sitting in judgement of the US at the UNHRC is none other than:

Human Rights International
Human Rights Watch (Bernadine Dorn sits on the board)
SEIU
AFL-CIO

Among others.

These groups are in it for the tearing down of America as it is, or has been in the past, and I don't think we can look for Global Marxist institutions to be running the show can we?

j-mac
 
apdst said:
What's the context of the criticism. You complain that American aid is funding a foreign country and that foreign country is involved in human rights abuses; but how often do you stop to consider that that country would be abusing human rights, American money, or no American money? Probably never; you simply blame it on America, first.

Just like Iraq. Whose fault is it that Muslim insurgents are suicide bombing Muslim civilians? You'll rarely hear anyone from the blame America first crowd blame the insurgents.

That's Councilman's point.
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the context....you can draw a 1 to 1 line between US dollars given to a country and human rights abuses carried comitted by that government. colombia and turkey and israel, way up on the list of US "aid", also leading the world in human rights abuses. its a pattern, its not one example. you compare the many examples and you can come to a conclusion......that US aid leads to human rights abuses. its simple logic.

and sure a country might have the deisre to commit those terrible acts without US funds, Israel for example would be just fine in raping the palestinians.....buts its ability to do so, minus US aid, would be severely hindered. the ratio of aid/human rights abuses accounts for abilty to carry out atrocities, so the conclusion is accurate.
 
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Hatuey said:
The reason you cooperate with the UN is because your governments are simply too weak to actually pull off any large scale human rights violations. You leave that to the myriad of multinational European corporations which operate within Africa. In West Africa, you won't see the French or British governments getting their hands dirty. However, Europeans are still very much in power of Africa. The difference between today and the 1930s you now leave the colonizing process to Monsanto, Elf and Shell.
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Pete is self-righteous and sanctimonious when it comes to the US.
 
commy said:
the context....you can draw a 1 to 1 line between US dollars given to a country and human rights abuses carried comitted by that government.
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Like... Iran?
 
commy said:
the context....you can draw a 1 to 1 line between US dollars given to a country and human rights abuses carried comitted by that government. colombia and turkey and israel, way up on the list of US "aid", also leading the world in human rights abuses. its a pattern, its not one example. you compare the many examples and you can come to a conclusion......that US aid leads to human rights abuses. its simple logic.

and sure a country might have the deisre to commit those terrible acts without US funds, Israel for example would be just fine in raping the palestinians.....buts its ability to do so, minus US aid, would be severely hindered. the ratio of aid/human rights abuses accounts for abilty to carry out atrocities, so the conclusion is accurate.
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Many Americans feel that foreign aid should be stopped altogether. Your argument certainly supports that point of view.
 
PeteEU said:
The ones rolling in their graves are the founding fathers.

That the US still can make laws that targets minorities because the population is up in an irrational frenzy over said minority... is in it self a human rights violation. You cant just pick and choose you know... targeting someone based on sex, religion or ethnicity is a violation of their human rights.. pure and simple.
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Right, because making a "law" which says a court shall not consider religious law is suuuuuuuuch a "human rights" violation. The barbarism!

:rofl
 
Harshaw said:
Right, because making a "law" which says a court shall not consider religious law is suuuuuuuuch a "human rights" violation. The barbarism!

:rofl
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Until quite recently I thought the left was in favor of the separation between Church and State.

What was it that convinced them otherwise, I wonder?

The stoning of Gays and adulterers? Multiple wives and marrying children?

Would one of you lefties out there please explain this turnabout?
 
SE102 said:
U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review



Also of importance: Universal Periodic Review

I find that this is a show of good faith to participate, even if it means being hypocritically criticised by 'enemies'. Hopefully they were guffawed when they made their statements. They may be less willing to be open and address human rights issued if the UN's leading member did not participate. Improvements here will lead to more effectivity to address improvements there I would hope.

Thoughts?
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This is an undeniable good thing. Now that America has eschewed its previous stance of superiority, and admitted that it can make modern mistakes just like the rest of the world, it will inevitably force closer scrutiny of the nations that really need it.

Now, is America's human rights record perfect? Absolutely not -- of course not. But is it as bad as somewhere like Sudan? Also of course not. So, while it may be embarressing officially admitting that human rights haven't always been upheld in America, I'm glad America has swallowed its pride for a greater good.
 
Le Marteau said:
This is an undeniable good thing. Now that America has eschewed its previous stance of superiority, and admitted that it can make modern mistakes just like the rest of the world, it will inevitably force closer scrutiny of the nations that really need it.

Now, is America's human rights record perfect? Absolutely not -- of course not. But is it as bad as somewhere like Sudan? Also of course not. So, while it may be embarressing officially admitting that human rights haven't always been upheld in America, I'm glad America has swallowed its pride for a greater good.
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And that "greater good" is that?

Should Americans care about the opinions of these corrupt buffoons?

I don't think so. Should anyone care?
'
 
Grant said:
And that "greater good" is that?

Should Americans care about the opinions of these corrupt buffoons?

I don't think so. Should anyone care?
'
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Perhaps Monseur Le Marteau was suggesting that Americans should care about what the non-corrupt people of the world, who are not buffoons, might think? Or are you simply suggesting that that every nation other than the USA is composed of corrupt buffons?
 
PeteEU said:
The ones rolling in their graves are the founding fathers.

That the US still can make laws that targets minorities because the population is up in an irrational frenzy over said minority... is in it self a human rights violation. You cant just pick and choose you know... targeting someone based on sex, religion or ethnicity is a violation of their human rights.. pure and simple.

And for the record, no we in Europe are no better, but the difference is we dont refuse to cooperate with the UNHRC and find ourselves "above" them just because a few human rights violators are on the council... one of those being the US btw. Like it or not, we believe in human rights over here, even though certain right wingers try to bend the rules in their favour... Berloscoloony comes to mind.
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Which laws would those be?
 
Leo said:
Perhaps Monseur Le Marteau was suggesting that Americans should care about what the non-corrupt people of the world, who are not buffoons, might think? Or are you simply suggesting that that every nation other than the USA is composed of corrupt buffons?
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We're talking of the UN here, a corrupt organization, and the buffoons, dangerous buffoons, on its HRC.

Who, apart from the third worlders on the UNHRC, actually cares about the human rights record in the United States and what would they do about it anyway? That would be a matter for the Americans to resolve.

Americans have been solving their own problems for well over two centuries and certainly need no advice from the clowns in the UNHSC who have little knowledge or experience in these matters. Not even in their own countries.

If you sincerely want to check out a first world country were human rights are in jeopardy, you might try that Irish backwater.

Criticizing Islam now a crime in Ireland under sharia-like blasphemy law « Creeping Sharia
 
PeteEU said:
Why should the US not be put under the same scrutiny as other nations? Why should the US, as the only nation, be given a free pass when it comes to organisations looking into its human rights record? Like it or not the US history on human rights is as bad as the nations on the 47 member UNHRC and in some cases, far worse.
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I would not mind it from a group of like-minded countries. I would accept criticism from most EU members and a variety of other Member States (even the likes of Namibia and South Africa) over many of the states that are, in fact, members of the HRC.
 
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