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Thread: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    It's always nice to try.

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    First, let's dispose of an annoying strawman in this thread: "So, we cannot criticize the US because others do the same and worse?". No one is saying we cannot criticize the US (well, maybe one person). No one is saying that we cannot arrest a burglar because a rapist exists (as much as some might want the US arrested). This strawman is invented to deflect from political aggression by the UN. What people are saying is: "to prioriize the US, given UNHRC member states, is ludicrous." To allow the likes of communist dictatorships, total-power monarchs and theocracies (wtf is Libya anyways?) to lecture to the US flies in the face of decency. What we have here is a case of the pot calling the water black.

    So, let's end all this "just because they are worse is no reason that blah blah blah" and get it straight - it is the prioritization (and the blatent human-rights abusing UNHRC member states) that offends decent, intelligent educated people.


    Second, here's one of my favorite songs by a favorite artist: "Democracy [is coming to the USA]", by Leonard Cohen.

    YouTube - Leonard Cohen - Democracy [OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO]
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-09-10 at 12:57 AM.

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    A show of goodwill against nations our administrations chuckle about destroying in halls and behind closed doors might help.
    The idea of nuking cities in coastal china was seriously considered and thrown around the american government during korea.
    Places like Venezuela are convinced the US has strategies to invade. Paranoia? Arguably... Given history, maybe a smart paranoia.

    it is the prioritization that offends decent, intelligent educated people.
    The decent intelligent educated people tend to understand what goes on in the UN and not talk about it in forums either. So who knows what they think.

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    The decent intelligent educated people tend to understand what goes on in the UN and not talk about it in forums either. So who knows what they think.
    Speak for yourself. I'm more than decent, way intelligent and almost a PhD. I tend to think that I most often engage either the topic or another intelligent poster. I write about it in forums because very few rural Kenyans would have any idea what I was talking about (or have any inclination to discuss it instead of farming).

    Now, if you don't mind, stop crapping on all of us, and change your ugly avatar.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-09-10 at 01:03 AM.

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    Strange... any proficiency international relations theory or have any expertise on international institutions/law/organizations?

    And an avatar change may be fine... still beats something that belongs on the back of a ****ing pickup truck.

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    BA Environmental Studies, Florida International University
    MSc International Environmental Science, Lund University Sweden (specializing in development agriculture)
    PhD Interdisciplinary Ecology (economics, sociology and ecology to understand and analyze technology dissemination in developing agricultural systems), UF (go Gators)

    Before that I was a paratrooper, D Co. 3/505th PIR 82nd Abn (does that count as international relations?

    Now, as much as I enjoy myself being the topic of conversation (and I truly do), let's just say that I am, in fact, a decent, intelligent and educated person. I excuse your ignorant ad hom, and let's have a nice day.

    Regarding the avatar, I like green and blue. Shrug.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-09-10 at 01:23 AM.

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    Before that I was a paratrooper, D Co. 3/505th PIR 82nd Abn (does that count as international relations?
    Heh, almost.... but if they taught you IR theres to great a risk of defection.
    Last edited by MKULTRABOY; 11-09-10 at 01:23 AM.

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Sorry but this is misleading. France does send troops in and has done with places like CAR (Central African Republic) to remove a dictator. However very few Western Nations (including the US and many European nations) have a good record in Africa. Patrice Lumumba was assassinated in what many there believed was a CIA plot and with him went the hopes of many across Africa. He was left wing at the wrong time but he also (like some others) offered peaceful alternatives to some of the dictators placed there by the US as part of its cold war with the USSR.

    If you travel across Africa or have any contacts - you will find that China has been working hard to build bridges with many African nations and nobody in the West can match what is happening.

    As for Monsanto and Elf - I give you the horrible alternative of Congo and all the looting and rape that has happened there. Neither the US nor Europe can hold their heads up high regarding what has happened in Africa.
    It's because of posts like this that I simply refuse to give much thought to European talks about having a better human rights record than the U.S. but as long as we're actually on the topic of Patrice Lumumba and the Congo, it's never even been proven that the CIA had any connections whatsoever to his murder other than having knowledge of the fact. Belgium did too. As a matter of fact, Belgium admitted that its government had played an active and I quote 'moral' role in the whole matter. Never you mind the Belgium government was informed at all times what the situation of Lumumba was by members of the military.

    But let's go on shall we?

    All this talk about alternatives to the rape and violence in the Congo. Really? Europe is providing alternatives to the mess created by Europe in the 1960s? Which European country kept the Congo under cultural and economic slavery up until it granted it 'independence'? The product of one of Belgium's few exploits in colonization, the Congo was 'granted' independence in the 1960s. Never you mind that King Bauduin had arranged it so that many European companies had overwhelming monopolies on most industries in the country. Never you mind that the colonization process was so ingrained the Congolese mind that when it was granted independence, only a handful of the country's citizens had any actual knowledge which would give them any kind of chance at running the country properly.

    But please, misleading? If anything it is your European apologies which are misleading.

    It's no secret that European multinational companies fuel conflicts and fund dictatorships. France and England have been fighting dirty little wars in Africa ever since they granted independence to most of their African colonies. They have installed dictatorships, funded murderous rebel groups, fueled strife. This isn't even a secret. It's public knowledge. As far as France removing dictators, and I assume you mean Patasse, all I have to say is: Really? Is 'sending troops' what you call when you wait until a democratically elected President leaves so that local rebels can be installed? Is that what you call losing the support of France to the extent that the only way France can intervene is by deposing him? Is that the record we're all supposed to look at in awe? Well alright France.

    Don't even get get me started on Dacko. Do you know why Dacko was deposed? He eliminated the monopoly of the French of CAR's diamond mines. That did not fly well with France. So after initially supporting him, France decided that it had to depose him and replace him with Kolingba. When Kolingba turned sour on the French, he had to be deposed too. The CAR by African standards is probably one of the region's most tame situations so unlike Nigeria, which inherited a lack of record keeping from its British masters, it's easy to find out just how deep European hands go.

    Seriously, the U.S. has nothing on Europe when it comes to human rights violations.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    BA Environmental Studies, Florida International University
    MSc International Environmental Science, Lund University Sweden (specializing in development agriculture)
    PhD Interdisciplinary Ecology (economics, sociology and ecology to understand and analyze technology dissemination in developing agricultural systems), UF (go Gators)

    Before that I was a paratrooper, D Co. 3/505th PIR 82nd Abn (does that count as international relations?

    Now, as much as I enjoy myself being the topic of conversation (and I truly do), let's just say that I am, in fact, a decent, intelligent and educated person.
    But my friend, are you not doing yourself a grave injustice? You omitted to mention your most outstandingly attractive attribute - self-effacing modesty.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: U.S. offers its human rights record for U.N. review

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's because of posts like this that I simply refuse to give much thought to European talks about having a better human rights record than the U.S.
    The US has a record of human rights violations, as has every other developed society on earth. Irrespective of personal opinions of individuals involved with the UN Human Rights Council, the premise that this record should not be examined is flawed. The US government decision to submit this record to examination, indicates it is a civilised society governed by the rule of law (both domestic and international,) and to do any less would indicate something else.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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