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AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

Damn, even a blind frog lucks out and catches a fly every now and then. A prime example is ptif219 Inadvertly stumbling upon the real reason for the decline of the middleclass.

OUR CORP whores have almost completely gutted the labor movement with the march of manufacturing jobs offshore and politicians(of both parties) have seen fit to give them tax cuts for there greed.:rock

Wrong!! The unions have so abused power and have become so political that the workers no longer want or respect unions


http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/04/05/366339/index.htm


Knowing these disparities might make Schwab and Grace turn over in their graves, though Grace did get an early taste of union power. He was forced in 1941 to let the steelworkers union into the company. Thereafter, Bethlehem, typically joining in industrywide bargaining, grimly settled into triennial negotiations in which the union worked unbendingly at keeping the maximum number of its members employed at the highest possible pay. That vault in wages shows how well the union succeeded. Worse--this is an industry in which that word is persistently relevant--the industry let itself be locked into work rules and narrow job descriptions that protected workers whom automation and efficiency should have made superfluous.

The point is driven home stunningly by the contract changes that International Steel Group wrung from the steelworkers for those six Bethlehem plants it began operating in 2003. ISG's CEO, Wilbur Ross, who characterizes Bethlehem's contract as "terrible," got the union to allow the cutting of job categories in his plants from 32 to five! As just one example, there is no longer a job category called electrician, which means that when a light bulb needs changing, a machine operator doesn't have to call such a specialist in (perhaps from the far reaches of a plant) but can screw in a new bulb himself.

The ultimate error was the steel industry's approach to pension and health benefits. The history here is revealing. From World War II on, wage and price controls intermittently slowed wage increases. Written into the contracts as offsets, though, were a long string of benefit improvements. These took up their role as company killers.

Management, however, originally viewed its benefit promises as benign compared to wage increases calling for immediate cash. Health costs were modest for many decades and, besides, were normally pay-as-you-go. That is, few companies during this era bothered to fund health benefits in advance by putting money into a trust for employees. Until the 1990s, when new accounting rules came in, pay-as-you-go also meant that companies were not accruing expenses for what they would eventually have to pay retirees. Corporations were thus left oblivious to true costs and real earnings.

Pension plans, in contrast to health and insurance plans, were normally funded and eventually had to be. But before that requirement took hold, companies had wide latitude as to how much, if anything, they would contribute in any given year. Consequently, a lot of the pain related to pensions could be pushed into the future if that's the way management wanted it.
 
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Wrong!! The unions have so abused power and have become so political that the workers no longer want or respect unions

As have corroprations. Who salaries have gone up more, CEO's or working men and women?
 
Wrong!! The unions have so abused power and have become so political that the workers no longer want or respect unions

Do you have anything to say that has even a smidgen of the subject that you are quoting? Which was “decline of the middle-class “.:lamo
 
Read my link the management took a cut

I did, you should:

A 1959 shareholder suit then rocked this luxury yacht, noting piercingly that this pay had been set by a board including only insiders. CEO Homer buckled, moving to a less-rewarding formula for determining bonuses, and Bethlehem's crew went south on the pay list.

That is also a pretty good description of what this whole prideful company, run by these richly compensated men, was doing at the time. A strong case can be made that in the very early years of FORTUNE's 500--say, the period from 1955 through 1965--Bethlehem's eventual fate was sealed. Some books about steel describe its glory days as extending into the 1960s, but the industry's financial results refute that. Instead, a bitter war between revenues and costs had developed by the '60s, and the biggest victim it left on the battlefield was that critical measure of profitability: return on equity.

(snip)

Confronted with what was happening to its business those many years ago, Bethlehem should have been tirelessly trying to unload its steel plants on some buyer. But of course that wasn't going to happen, wasn't even going to be thought about, probably couldn't have been carried out if it was thought about.

(snip)

Unable to cope with that calamity in any way, Bethlehem's bosses just dug their hole deeper, all the while contending with a set of impossible economics.

(snip)

Foreign steel, of course, enraged Bethlehem and the integrated industry, which believed it to be unfairly priced. The mini-mills initially bothered the industry much less, because it saw the new ventures as little more than annoying gnats, buzzing around making inconsequential niche products like reinforcing bars. But these producers then moved up the food chain, first beginning to make plate and then structural products. That hit Bethlehem where it literally lived--in Bethlehem, Pa., site of the company's big but antiquated structural steel mill. This plant, which was for years sentimentally kept on life support, was finally and mournfully closed in 1995.



You can't remove management from the equation. Sorry. :shrug:
 
I,m not debating a link i,m debating you.Lets hear your opinion, in your own words. ;)

Unions have damaged the middle class by demanding to high of wages and extreme retirement packages. Then turn around and use dues to promote the democrats.
 
Unions have damaged the middle class by demanding to high of wages and extreme retirement packages. Then turn around and use dues to promote the democrats.

yes, becasue a person working on an assembly line isn't deserving of a living wage. what rot.
 
I did, you should:

A 1959 shareholder suit then rocked this luxury yacht, noting piercingly that this pay had been set by a board including only insiders. CEO Homer buckled, moving to a less-rewarding formula for determining bonuses, and Bethlehem's crew went south on the pay list.

That is also a pretty good description of what this whole prideful company, run by these richly compensated men, was doing at the time. A strong case can be made that in the very early years of FORTUNE's 500--say, the period from 1955 through 1965--Bethlehem's eventual fate was sealed. Some books about steel describe its glory days as extending into the 1960s, but the industry's financial results refute that. Instead, a bitter war between revenues and costs had developed by the '60s, and the biggest victim it left on the battlefield was that critical measure of profitability: return on equity.

(snip)

Confronted with what was happening to its business those many years ago, Bethlehem should have been tirelessly trying to unload its steel plants on some buyer. But of course that wasn't going to happen, wasn't even going to be thought about, probably couldn't have been carried out if it was thought about.

(snip)

Unable to cope with that calamity in any way, Bethlehem's bosses just dug their hole deeper, all the while contending with a set of impossible economics.

(snip)

Foreign steel, of course, enraged Bethlehem and the integrated industry, which believed it to be unfairly priced. The mini-mills initially bothered the industry much less, because it saw the new ventures as little more than annoying gnats, buzzing around making inconsequential niche products like reinforcing bars. But these producers then moved up the food chain, first beginning to make plate and then structural products. That hit Bethlehem where it literally lived--in Bethlehem, Pa., site of the company's big but antiquated structural steel mill. This plant, which was for years sentimentally kept on life support, was finally and mournfully closed in 1995.



You can't remove management from the equation. Sorry. :shrug:

Yet unions did things that were ridiculus. Like having to call an electrician to change a lightbulb. The wages were out of line and the cost to retirees but a huge burden on the company
 
So, a 'living wage' to you is 3-4 times a going rate... what rot.

it's bull****. unions have lowered their wages as well as their benefit packages, which will ultimately result in the lowering of all manufactuing wages, at least for those jobs we keep. you must be one of the people who believes the $70 an hour crap, right?
 
yes, becasue a person working on an assembly line isn't deserving of a living wage. what rot.

Are they worth $28.00 an hour? The higher the wage the higher the cost. It must stay within reason for the company to stay competitive.
 
Are they worth $28.00 an hour? The higher the wage the higher the cost. It must stay within reason for the company to stay competitive.

are you aware of what percentage wages are for a middle priced car? i'll bet not. and yes, people who work an assembly line and wreck their bodies are worth that. ever have to raise your hand to use the bathroom?
 
it's bull****. unions have lowered their wages as well as their benefit packages, which will ultimately result in the lowering of all manufactuing wages, at least for those jobs we keep. you must be one of the people who believes the $70 an hour crap, right?

So compare the wages and benefits of the auto union to say one of the foreign car manufacturers that have assembly plants here in the US

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20101022/NEWS/101029935
 
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What question? You avoid the facts in my link and try to change the subject.

!) I didn't avoid anything. I read your link and pointed to some other facts.

2) the subject was my question: Who's salaries have risen the most, CEO's or workers?
 
Yet unions did things that were ridiculus. Like having to call an electrician to change a lightbulb. The wages were out of line and the cost to retirees but a huge burden on the company

Did managment sign those agreements, or did unions do this without management? Again, you can't remove management from these things. And rember, per your link, that was changed and employees dropped from 32 to five. The business still did not survive, and your article points to management.
 
Unions have damaged the middle class by demanding to high of wages and extreme retirement packages. Then turn around and use dues to promote the democrats.

Don't forget the absurdly restrictive work rules.
 
!) I didn't avoid anything. I read your link and pointed to some other facts.


I don't know but it shows the unions pushed for maximum wages. 30$ an hour was a bit much
2) the subject was my question: Who's salaries have risen the most, CEO's or workers?

I don't know the article shows that management took cuts not union workers
 
compare current wages and benefits, about equal. the legacy costs are the tough part. and foreign auto makers in the u.s. are starting to catch up with that cost, as their workforce ages and people start to retire.

Shows there is no need for a union. Unions had to cut wages and benefits because they had abused their power
 
Did managment sign those agreements, or did unions do this without management? Again, you can't remove management from these things. And rember, per your link, that was changed and employees dropped from 32 to five. The business still did not survive, and your article points to management.

After the damage was already done. The unions made it so a person could not change a light bulb. The unions made ridiculus rules and abused their power.
 
After the damage was already done. The unions made it so a person could not change a light bulb. The unions made ridiculus rules and abused their power.

To which management agreed. You're extremely forgiving of management, even with evidence of poor manegment, but terribly hard on workers. I find this odd. Manegment can't be removed from responsibility for what they signed.
 
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