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Thread: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

  1. #71
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Problem is there are to many here drinking the democrat kool aid and do not know how todays unions work
    Riight. I've been a union member, so I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly about them. I've also seen the good, the bad and the ugly about the employers. Some of them still treat their staff like crap.

    And these links prove your claim about unions endorsing Democrats is simply not true:

    Cambridge Police Patrol Officers union endorses Republican Brown in Senate race - Cambridge, Massachusetts - Cambridge Chronicle

    Republican Dubie collects labor union endorsements | The Burlington Free Press | Burlington, Vermont

    State lobby group, labor union endorse Haslam | Chattanooga Times Free Press

    There are more, but I think I've made my point.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What exactly wouldn't kill the company? Frankly most companies can't compete internationally because of health care costs.
    That is a talking point line directly from the DNC. It's BS. What about Union costs built into the cost of every product produced from union labor here in this country? Think that pensioning someone for 30 years at their full salary has any effect on that?

    A siingle payer would ease that. Would you support a single payer?
    Why should I trust that? Because you say so? Competition reduces cost, and increases quality every time. Single payer kills that, so no.

    Americans make higher incomes than third world countries. Making 50 cents an hour would make us competitve, would you support that?
    Don't be silly. Obama had no care for his own family member in Kenya living in squaller in a shack on $20 per year, and your answer rather than bring those nations up from 50 cents an hour, is to bring us down to their level speaks volumes about where you stand.

    It isn't as easy as you make it sound. How would the membership feel about considerably lower pay and no benefits?
    they wouldn't like it. But why isn't that considered greed? huh? This country is in dire straights, and all the Union shlubs can do is cry that they don't get enough? Great.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is a talking point line directly from the DNC. It's BS. What about Union costs built into the cost of every product produced from union labor here in this country? Think that pensioning someone for 30 years at their full salary has any effect on that?



    Why should I trust that? Because you say so? Competition reduces cost, and increases quality every time. Single payer kills that, so no.



    Don't be silly. Obama had no care for his own family member in Kenya living in squaller in a shack on $20 per year, and your answer rather than bring those nations up from 50 cents an hour, is to bring us down to their level speaks volumes about where you stand.



    they wouldn't like it. But why isn't that considered greed? huh? This country is in dire straights, and all the Union shlubs can do is cry that they don't get enough? Great.

    j-mac
    If you're going to piss and moan about "greed," then I'd suggest that a better target for your ire might be the boys and girls of Wall Street and the investment firms who helped cause the financial meltdown in '08 but still believe they're entitled to bonuses that are far bigger than anything some union member will ever get.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Show proof. I was in the union I know how they work.


    In 1972 the teamsters endorsed Nixon,in 1980 and 1984 Ronald Reagan, in 1988 George the first.

    During the primaries they didn’t endorse either Hillary or Obama, but seeing the tragedy of the bush years they endorsed and supported President Obama after he won the primary.As for a their support of Bill Clinton, it was luke warm at best, because of NAFTA.

    I also know a thing or two how unions work, I was a Teamster Officer, both at the local and national(organizer in the late seventies)level for twenty years. When I retire I will have a nice pension in addition to SS.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
    If you're going to piss and moan about "greed," then I'd suggest that a better target for your ire might be the boys and girls of Wall Street and the investment firms who helped cause the financial meltdown in '08 but still believe they're entitled to bonuses that are far bigger than anything some union member will ever get.
    Don't turn all green with jealousy on me Birdy. Although, I'll concede that Wall St. had a role in the crash of the housing market that is the current catalyst of our woes, they weren't alone. If you want to be honest, they were only trying to cover their backsides after the poverty pimps like Jackson, and Sharpton, ACORN, and demo's in congress pushed them to lend to people that couldn't afford a hot dog on credit, let alone a house. And in the midst of all of this you have demo's in congress turning a blind eye to the collapse when it could have been avoided...Great.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is a talking point line directly from the DNC. It's BS. What about Union costs built into the cost of every product produced from union labor here in this country? Think that pensioning someone for 30 years at their full salary has any effect on that?
    If you say so. I have no idea. But do address the point anyway. I can show my point with links, credible links.

    Employers — 174 million Americans, or 60.4 percent of the population, had employment-based health insurance during 2003. A December 2004 survey of CEOs found that employee health care costs are the foremost cost concern in the minds of America’s business leaders.
    Active Workers — In 2004, employers contributed $3,137 for single coverage and $7,289 for family coverage on average across all plan types.
    Retirees — The 2004 Kaiser/Hewitt survey on retiree health benefits found that the total cost of providing health benefits to retirees from 2003 to 2004 increased by 12.7 percent, on average, for surveyed employers.
    Local Impacts, Health Sector — The health sector is a significant source of employment for American workers, employing 6.3 million practitioners and technical workers, and 3.2 million Americans in health care support occupations in as of November, 2003.
    Employees — Workers with employer-sponsored health insurance will often experience reductions in real (after adjusting for inflation) wages reductions (or wage growth) in response to health care cost growth. The empirical evidence has tended to show that health care cost increases are offset by either direct wage reductions, increased employee cost sharing, or in instances where wages are fixed (i.e., unionized contracts), by increases in the number of hours worked.

    Effects of Health Care Spending on the U.S. Economy

    Competitive Disadvantage
    The United States spent more than 17 percent of its GDP in 2009 on healthcare, higher than any other developed nation. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that number will rise to 25 percent by 2025 without changes to federal law (PDF). Employer-funded coverage is the structural mainstay of the U.S. health insurance system. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, about 71 percent of private employees in the United States had access to employer-sponsored health plans in 2006. A November 2008 Kaiser Foundation report says access to employer-sponsored health insurance has been on the decline (PDF) among low-income workers, and health premiums for workers have risen 114 percent in the last decade (PDF). A March 2010 report by Thomson Reuters, a business intelligence service, found that employers' healthcare costs rose 7.3 percent in 2009 (PDF) compared with 4.8 percent in overall U.S. health spending that year. Small businesses are less likely than large employers to be able to provide health insurance as a benefit. At 12 percent, healthcare is the most expensive benefit paid by U.S. employers, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
    Some economists say these ballooning dollar figures place a heavy burden on companies doing business in the United States and can put them at a substantial competitive disadvantage in the international marketplace.

    Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness - Council on Foreign Relations

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    Why should I trust that? Because you say so? Competition reduces cost, and increases quality every time. Single payer kills that, so no.
    How's that worked out so far? Quoting mindless platitudes make some feel better, but prices have not gone down, and we have a competitive situation right now, inspite what you're told.

    Don't be silly. Obama had no care for his own family member in Kenya living in squaller in a shack on $20 per year, and your answer rather than bring those nations up from 50 cents an hour, is to bring us down to their level speaks volumes about where you stand.
    Nice diversion, but incorrect. Business left here for cheaper wages.


    they wouldn't like it. But why isn't that considered greed? huh? This country is in dire straights, and all the Union shlubs can do is cry that they don't get enough? Great.

    j-mac
    I suspect you're debating someone else again, ignore the argument before you. It's the genaric liberal isn't it?

    Everyone wants to do well. Business owner, stock holders and employees. Both will take advantage where they can. However, I did see a compnay the other day were everyone was a full owner, no difference in position or pay, and they seemed to be doing well. Interesting concept.

    But, worker and employer have to both be cooperative and combative in our system. neither can reply on the goodness and fairness of the other.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #77
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you say so. I have no idea. But do address the point anyway. I can show my point with links, credible links.
    give me some time to pour through them, however I have to say that I take issue with putting up figures from HHS and saying that is the only credible source. It smacks of dismissal of anything that is contrary to them.

    How's that worked out so far? Quoting mindless platitudes make some feel better, but prices have not gone down, and we have a competitive situation right now, inspite what you're told.
    No, we don't have a truly competitive situation right now. That is misinformation put out by the Obama supporters.

    I suspect you're debating someone else again, ignore the argument before you. It's the genaric liberal isn't it?
    Thank you for finally admitting that you are the generic liberal.

    Everyone wants to do well. Business owner, stock holders and employees. Both will take advantage where they can. However, I did see a compnay the other day were everyone was a full owner, no difference in position or pay, and they seemed to be doing well. Interesting concept.
    I work right now for a "100% Employee Owned company" Great words, Great concept, No Union.

    But, worker and employer have to both be cooperative and combative in our system. neither can reply on the goodness and fairness of the other.
    Why not? How is a Union going to mitigate that other than be a blood sucking middle man?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #78
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    give me some time to pour through them, however I have to say that I take issue with putting up figures from HHS and saying that is the only credible source. It smacks of dismissal of anything that is contrary to them.
    I'm sure everything smells that way to some. Something contrary, like anything else, has to be grounded in something solid, and not just being contrary.


    No, we don't have a truly competitive situation right now. That is misinformation put out by the Obama supporters.
    Yes, we do. What you're likely talking about will never come to be. And if it did, it wouldn't last one election cycle.



    Thank you for finally admitting that you are the generic liberal.
    Cute, but not helpful.


    I work right now for a "100% Employee Owned company" Great words, Great concept, No Union.
    As it has employee input, and if you truely are, it isn't top down. I have not argued everyone needs a union. But some do.



    Why not? How is a Union going to mitigate that other than be a blood sucking middle man?


    j-mac
    A group can speak better than an individual. It gives the work a larger voice. There's really no disputing that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Don't turn all green with jealousy on me Birdy. Although, I'll concede that Wall St. had a role in the crash of the housing market that is the current catalyst of our woes, they weren't alone. If you want to be honest, they were only trying to cover their backsides after the poverty pimps like Jackson, and Sharpton, ACORN, and demo's in congress pushed them to lend to people that couldn't afford a hot dog on credit, let alone a house. And in the midst of all of this you have demo's in congress turning a blind eye to the collapse when it could have been avoided...Great.

    j-mac

    Ah yes, once again with one of those right wing talking points, regardless of whether or not it's true. Show us some credible proof that it was "Jackson, and Sharpton, ACORN, and demo's in congress" who "pushed" them to make make loans to people who were not creditworthy. I've heard that claim so many times, but have yet to see a shred of credible proof to back it up.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
    Ah yes, once again with one of those right wing talking points, regardless of whether or not it's true. Show us some credible proof that it was "Jackson, and Sharpton, ACORN, and demo's in congress" who "pushed" them to make make loans to people who were not creditworthy. I've heard that claim so many times, but have yet to see a shred of credible proof to back it up.


    GASP…you mean you haven’t seen the ACORN VIDEO from the conservatism's second most reliable source of news, Andrew Breitbart.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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