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Thread: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

  1. #121
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Funny how when a union job folds, it's all because the union workers are strong-arming the company.

    When a non-union job folds, it's like a tree falling in the forest and no one is around.
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And in your thinking the compnay had no role in that negotiation? Let's take a mini look at the history:

    After 1970 the company could no longer compete effectively with low-wage producers elsewhere. Imports and mini-mills undercut its sales -

    History of the modern steel industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Steel production had increased exponentially since the industrial revolution, and demand had been especially high during the world wars. Steel prices significantly dropped as the market became saturated with steel, and many steel mills in the Western world were driven out of business.

    Steel crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You seem to be making a link that isn't fully supported by fact. Sure, workers could have agreed to lower wages, and it might have still fell. They could have accepted thrid world country wages, but how would that be for workers here? Would it really be better than being changing to a new field?

    Trying to reduce complicated issues to single person blame is usually a mistake. Both workers and managment likely hold a share of the blame in most cases. And we can't forget the role of the arket in all this. With health insurance benefits and such paid by employers, we are behind the eightball with competing with the rest of the world.
    I notice you show nothing of the outlandish wages the union had negotiated for steel workers

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Funny how when a union job folds, it's all because the union workers are strong-arming the company.

    When a non-union job folds, it's like a tree falling in the forest and no one is around.
    Even funnier is in the 60's 33% of workers belonged to unions now about 12%. Unions have abused power and lost support from the worker

  4. #124
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Even funnier is in the 60's 33% of workers belonged to unions now about 12%. Unions have abused power and lost support from the worker

    Damn, even a blind frog lucks out and catches a fly every now and then. A prime example is ptif219 Inadvertly stumbling upon the real reason for the decline of the middleclass.

    OUR CORP whores have almost completely gutted the labor movement with the march of manufacturing jobs offshore and politicians(of both parties) have seen fit to give them tax cuts for there greed.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  5. #125
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I notice you show nothing of the outlandish wages the union had negotiated for steel workers
    Key word, negotiated.

    ne·go·ti·ate   /nɪˈgoʊʃiˌeɪt/ Show Spelled
    [ni-goh-shee-eyt]
    verb, -at·ed, -at·ing.
    –verb (used without object)
    1. to deal or bargain with another or others, as in the preparation of a treaty or contract or in preliminaries to a business deal.
    –verb (used with object)
    2. to arrange for or bring about by discussion and settlement of terms: to negotiate a loan.
    3. to manage; transact; conduct: He negotiated an important business deal.

    Negotiate | Define Negotiate at Dictionary.com

    Nothing in that definition says that only one side is responsible for things negotiated by both sides.

    Also, click those links. None of the ones I looked at during a search, the first three or four listed, place the blame on unions. Just saying . . . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Damn, even a blind frog lucks out and catches a fly every now and then. A prime example is ptif219 Inadvertly stumbling upon the real reason for the decline of the middleclass.

    OUR CORP whores have almost completely gutted the labor movement with the march of manufacturing jobs offshore and politicians(of both parties) have seen fit to give them tax cuts for there greed.
    Wrong!! The unions have so abused power and have become so political that the workers no longer want or respect unions


    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...6339/index.htm


    Knowing these disparities might make Schwab and Grace turn over in their graves, though Grace did get an early taste of union power. He was forced in 1941 to let the steelworkers union into the company. Thereafter, Bethlehem, typically joining in industrywide bargaining, grimly settled into triennial negotiations in which the union worked unbendingly at keeping the maximum number of its members employed at the highest possible pay. That vault in wages shows how well the union succeeded. Worse--this is an industry in which that word is persistently relevant--the industry let itself be locked into work rules and narrow job descriptions that protected workers whom automation and efficiency should have made superfluous.

    The point is driven home stunningly by the contract changes that International Steel Group wrung from the steelworkers for those six Bethlehem plants it began operating in 2003. ISG's CEO, Wilbur Ross, who characterizes Bethlehem's contract as "terrible," got the union to allow the cutting of job categories in his plants from 32 to five! As just one example, there is no longer a job category called electrician, which means that when a light bulb needs changing, a machine operator doesn't have to call such a specialist in (perhaps from the far reaches of a plant) but can screw in a new bulb himself.

    The ultimate error was the steel industry's approach to pension and health benefits. The history here is revealing. From World War II on, wage and price controls intermittently slowed wage increases. Written into the contracts as offsets, though, were a long string of benefit improvements. These took up their role as company killers.

    Management, however, originally viewed its benefit promises as benign compared to wage increases calling for immediate cash. Health costs were modest for many decades and, besides, were normally pay-as-you-go. That is, few companies during this era bothered to fund health benefits in advance by putting money into a trust for employees. Until the 1990s, when new accounting rules came in, pay-as-you-go also meant that companies were not accruing expenses for what they would eventually have to pay retirees. Corporations were thus left oblivious to true costs and real earnings.

    Pension plans, in contrast to health and insurance plans, were normally funded and eventually had to be. But before that requirement took hold, companies had wide latitude as to how much, if anything, they would contribute in any given year. Consequently, a lot of the pain related to pensions could be pushed into the future if that's the way management wanted it.
    Last edited by ptif219; 11-12-10 at 03:10 PM.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Wrong!! The unions have so abused power and have become so political that the workers no longer want or respect unions
    As have corroprations. Who salaries have gone up more, CEO's or working men and women?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Wrong!! The unions have so abused power and have become so political that the workers no longer want or respect unions
    Do you have anything to say that has even a smidgen of the subject that you are quoting? Which was “decline of the middle-class “.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As have corroprations. Who salaries have gone up more, CEO's or working men and women?
    Read my link the management took a cut

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Do you have anything to say that has even a smidgen of the subject that you are quoting? Which was “decline of the middle-class “.
    Read the link

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