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Thread: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And that answers what would happen if there were no unions? How?

    Aww Joe, you're so silly....unions make up 12% of the workforce in this country, so needless to say that things would not change drastically.


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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Aww Joe, you're so silly....unions make up 12% of the workforce in this country, so needless to say that things would not change drastically.


    j-mac
    Are you sure? Their benefits don't affect companies that don't want a union? Really? Our administraters here don't want a union, so they are very willing to work with us. How willing would they be if the power shifted? If they did have to worry about places with a union as competition?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Are you sure? Their benefits don't affect companies that don't want a union? Really? Our administraters here don't want a union, so they are very willing to work with us. How willing would they be if the power shifted? If they did have to worry about places with a union as competition?

    I think you credit the union too much here. We are talking about an entity in this nation that is 12%, that means that 88% don't have unions. I don't think that the threat of organizing is going to do much in this piss poor Obama economy other than make the business close....

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think you credit the union too much here. We are talking about an entity in this nation that is 12%, that means that 88% don't have unions. I don't think that the threat of organizing is going to do much in this piss poor Obama economy other than make the business close....

    j-mac
    I realize you think that. But, it can be argued they set the standard. Any employer today has to be concerned about competiting with that expectation. And while reality does sometimes force a company to ignore that, it costs them as well, as the best go elsewhere. But when they can, they ahve to give benefits and try to lure better employees.

    Without this standard, they hold the power, and can simply cut benefits and salary to their whim and not need, as things were before unions. I don't argue it would happen over night, but it shift would lead to eventually hurting American workers.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I realize you think that. But, it can be argued they set the standard. Any employer today has to be concerned about competiting with that expectation. And while reality does sometimes force a company to ignore that, it costs them as well, as the best go elsewhere. But when they can, they ahve to give benefits and try to lure better employees.

    Without this standard, they hold the power, and can simply cut benefits and salary to their whim and not need, as things were before unions. I don't argue it would happen over night, but it shift would lead to eventually hurting American workers.

    This is pure opinion, and conjecture on your part Joe. Let me tell you a story. My company as I told you is a "100% employee owned" company. Now does that mean that every worker has an equal say in company operations? No. It is really more of a profit sharing thing for us, and a tax break for the company. When you get hired, (if you are lucky enough) it is clear through the Company Handbook that Unionizing, or pushing for the organizing for a union is deeply frowned upon. In fact, some of our terminals that are union already through deals made when my company bought them, are being phased out, and if they will not accept the terms, then the terminal is shuttered....Lot's of good their unionization does them eh?

    So no tell me again how 88% of American businesses right now, in this economy are shaking in their boots over unions? Heck, more of them are afraid of the health care law that Pelosi said we had to pass to read than they are any insignificant union attempt.

    j-mac
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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is pure opinion, and conjecture on your part Joe. Let me tell you a story. My company as I told you is a "100% employee owned" company. Now does that mean that every worker has an equal say in company operations? No. It is really more of a profit sharing thing for us, and a tax break for the company. When you get hired, (if you are lucky enough) it is clear through the Company Handbook that Unionizing, or pushing for the organizing for a union is deeply frowned upon. In fact, some of our terminals that are union already through deals made when my company bought them, are being phased out, and if they will not accept the terms, then the terminal is shuttered....Lot's of good their unionization does them eh?

    So no tell me again how 88% of American businesses right now, in this economy are shaking in their boots over unions? Heck, more of them are afraid of the health care law that Pelosi said we had to pass to read than they are any insignificant union attempt.

    j-mac
    First j, there's nothing wrong with opinion here.

    But your example proves my point. They don't want a union, so they ahve to make things good for you keep you and unions out. What do you think happens if there is no threat of a union? Do you think they'll keep profit sharing? I suspect over time that would go the way of the dodo.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    As Diogenes said, "If you haven't seen the proof yet, I doubt you have been looking." I have no desire to waste my time trying to prove something to someone that is most likely ignoring it on purpose. If Dio wants to go down the pointles path he has my condolences.

    I'll just post a prior thread on this topic and be pretty well done with it:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...ng-crisis.html
    Ah, so you post a link to a previous thread - in which the OP makes the same claims WITHOUT any links to back them up? That's your evidence, along with a few snide remarks directed at me? That's downright pathetic. After all the whoppers of lies you right wingers have told, about HCR "death panels," "government takeover," etc. etc., can you blame anyone for being skeptical of ANY claims you try to make?
    Last edited by Birdzeye; 11-10-10 at 12:37 PM.

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First j, there's nothing wrong with opinion here.

    But your example proves my point. They don't want a union, so they ahve to make things good for you keep you and unions out. What do you think happens if there is no threat of a union? Do you think they'll keep profit sharing? I suspect over time that would go the way of the dodo.

    I don't think that they'll keep it now. My true thoughts are that this "100% Employee Owned" stuff is really little more than a tax break. The profit sharing seems a little Enronish to me. In any case, the pay is good, and I do like the company, not because they do so under constant fear of a Union coming in, like I said, they would close the terminal in a heartbeat and re open it with non union labor. But rather, that the union is really insignificant in terms of what this company is doing.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
    Ah, so you post a link to a previous thread - in which the OP makes the same claims WITHOUT any links to back them up? That's your evidence, along with a few snide remarks directed at me? That's downright pathetic. After all the whoppers of lies you right wingers have told, about HCR "death panels," "government takeover," etc. etc., can you blame anyone for being skeptical of ANY claims you try to make?
    Maybe if you could flip the channel off MSNBC, or LINKtv once and a while, you might have seen things come out that could cause you to rethink your hyper partisan opinion here.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: AARP Raises Costs for Employees' Insurance Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't think that they'll keep it now. My true thoughts are that this "100% Employee Owned" stuff is really little more than a tax break. The profit sharing seems a little Enronish to me. In any case, the pay is good, and I do like the company, not because they do so under constant fear of a Union coming in, like I said, they would close the terminal in a heartbeat and re open it with non union labor. But rather, that the union is really insignificant in terms of what this company is doing.

    j-mac
    Well, the company I spoke of earlier was completely company owned, with equal shares and equal pay for all.

    As they address the union at all, it has to be a concern for them. I suspect it means more than you know.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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