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2010 Midterm Results Discussion

No President since 1938 lost as many seats as Obama thus making this election historic and that is context. Not worried about a decent candidate in 2012 as Obama got elected with the worst resume in U.S. history.

For some reason it is always a question of context when anyone posts actual data. The actual data IS context.

How much money I made at work:

Monday: $1501.51
Tuesday: $1452.67
Wednesday: $1891.32
Thursday: $500.89
Friday: $300.23

Conservatives answer to this: Jet! You're obviously not working hard enough. I mean look at these numbers, that's it, you're fired!

Context Required:

Monday: 1000 Customers
Tuesday: 950 Customers
Wednesday: 1200 Customers
Thursday: 300 Customers
Friday: 200 Customers

Jesus ****ing christ. Glad I don't live in your universe or we'd all be fired.
 
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FDR was re-elected in 1940. Presidents Truman and Clinton also survived mid-term electoral routs. The 2010 election outcome will probably have little bearing on the outcome of the 2012 Presidential election if history is a guide. Factors such as the state of the economy, how Republicans govern (e.g., did they follow through on their key campaign commitments), whether one side or the other overreaches, who will be the Republican nominee, etc., will have a larger bearing.

True, but I am waiting for anyone to tell me what Obama has done that is going to make things better that will create the conditions for a re-election. Name for me one economic prediction Obama has made that has been accurate?

There is no way that you can add 3 trillion dollar to the debt, generate an addition 4 million unemployed and point to that as a success. Obama is a leftwing ideologue that lacks the basic leadership skills and political common sense to react to Tuesday's elections, i.e. the 200 million dollar a day trip to India.
 
How much money I made at work:

Monday: $1501.51
Tuesday: $1452.67
Wednesday: $1891.32
Thursday: $500.89
Friday: $300.23

Conservatives answer to this: Jet! You're obviously not working hard enough. I mean look at these numbers, that's it, you're fired!

Context Required:

Monday: 1000 Customers
Tuesday: 950 Customers
Wednesday: 1200 Customers
Thursday: 300 Customers
Friday: 200 Customers

Jesus ****ing christ. Glad I don't live in your universe or we'd all be fired.

I am surprised that you had 200 customers on Friday. I haven't seen anything from you that would cause anyone to buy from you.
 
I am surprised that you had 200 customers on Friday. I haven't seen anything from you that would cause anyone to buy from you.

It was a ****ing example.

/facepalm

Now what makes you say the underlined? I work at a movie theatre.

Secondary Context: We've opened no new movies in 2 weeks. on average, I'd do about 2 grand on a good day. Yesterday I did 700 at most.
 
They dont do better because they are in private schools, they do better because they just do?

I wouldn't say it that way, but yes. Don't underestimate the role the student and family play in this equation. Like any situation, those who have the most help, the better struture, the better situation. I'm not saying that all poor fail, but everyone needs something that helps keep them on track, that makes it more likely that they can succeed. And those students like those in private schools who stay in public school do just as well as their private school counterparts.

What is really being said is that many are misreading why private schools look better. You have to actually look to see why.
 
It was a ****ing example.

/facepalm

Now what makes you say the underlined? I work at a movie theatre.

Secondary Context: We've opened no new movies in 2 weeks. on average, I'd do about 2 grand on a good day. Yesterday I did 700 at most.

And my response was a joke. Tell me do people spend more or less money when taxes are higher? How about unemployed people, how much discretionary spending do they have? What economic policy has Obama put into place that has helped the private sector? Think that Obamacare promotes hiring? Think the Obama spending has provided incentive for business to hire? I suggest Obama supporters think instead of feeling when it comes to the Obama agenda. the American people spoke on Tuesday night and check out the election maps, a wave of Red across flyover country should speak volumes but Obama supporters remain in denial, just like Obama.
 
Reagan as well. ;)

Obama doesn't have the political instincts of either Clinton or Reagan, i.e. his 200 million dollar a day trip to India, nor does he have the economic policy of either. Reagan's was pro growth, pro business, and pro American taxpayer, Clinton's was adopting the GOP Contract with America, and Obama's is payback to his contituent groups. Obama if he doesn't do something to promote the private sector will be fired in 2012
 
True, but I am waiting for anyone to tell me what Obama has done that is going to make things better that will create the conditions for a re-election.

Two years is ample time to add to or build a successful policy framework and develop a reasonably convincing political rationale. I don't believe one can pre-ordain the outcome of the next election. A strong reminder in that direction are the predictions of permanent re-alignment that have risen time and again in the euphoria of a major electoral triumph. More often than not, those predictions have failed. Temporary shifts in the votes of independent swing voters have mainly accounted for the outcome and those voters are not mainly aligned with one major party or the other.

Name for me one economic prediction Obama has made that has been accurate?

There's little doubt that he underestimated the severity of the recession. Indeed, if one goes back to some of the discussions in October 2008 at DP, one finds news articles where predictions were for an unemployment rate that would top out in the 7%-7.5% range.

There is no way that you can add 3 trillion dollar to the debt, generate an addition 4 million unemployed and point to that as a success.

The long-term fiscal challenges are an important challenge. Whether or not a credible path toward fiscal consolidation will be developed and put in place remains to be seen. Two bodies will be providing recommendations to contribute toward that outcome before the year is out. As a wild card, President Obama could well gamble and call on Congress to adopt the recommendations (almost certain to include some level of tax hikes; entitlement reforms are also possible, though not assured). If Congress retreats, he could well argue that Congress needs to offer an alternative that produces at least as much saving. The Ryan proposal might provide such an alternative, but would the House actually transform it into legislation and adopt it?

Even the battle over the expiring tax cuts could create challenges and opportunities. If Republicans move to extend all of the tax cuts (a campaign commitment and one they need to keep to maintain credibility on that issue), will Republicans offer sufficient spending reductions/other revenue measures to offset the deficit impact (necessary to build credibility on the fiscal discipline commitment)?

Obama is a leftwing ideologue that lacks the basic leadership skills and political common sense to react to Tuesday's elections, i.e. the 200 million dollar a day trip to India.

To date, the demonstration of his leadership skills has fallen far short of what had been expected in the wake of his 2008 electoral triumph. One could have made a similar argument about President Clinton immediately following the 1994 election. Things can change. How he responds to the adversity of a substantial electoral setback will shed light on his actual leadership capacities.

On the trip to India, I believe both the reported cost and number of persons involved is excessive in the context of such trips. It also offers the symbolism of a disconnect between the nation's fiscal situation and fiscal practices. If the trip cannot be achieved at much lower cost and with far fewer persons, then it should not be undertaken. Instead, the President should invite India's Prime Minister to the White House. But now that the White House has committed to the trip, that option doesn't exist. It needs to quickly find a way to address the excesses associated with the trip (costs and persons).
 
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I agree with much of what you posted and appreciate the common sense and objective point of view.

I disagree with you on one issue however and that is the need for spending cuts to offset tax cuts as there will be no tax cuts only extension of the Bush tax cuts that are in place right now. I do believe there is room however to cut taxes in other areas.

The bottom line is it is imperative that we get a large number of those 16 million unemployed back to work and paying taxes. The only way that tax revenue will drop is if unemployment continues to remain this high. Obama has yet to show any indication that he understands that govt. revenue is impacted more by the unemployed than by the current tax cuts in place.
 
Note how the market is taking off again. It crept upward as it became more and more apparent in recent months that Republicans would win Tuesday, and now, with Obama's agenda in the crapper, business can start acting like business again, albeit carefully.
 
Note how the market is taking off again. It crept upward as it became more and more apparent in recent months that Republicans would win Tuesday, and now, with Obama's agenda in the crapper, business can start acting like business again, albeit carefully.


QE2 has a bit to play in this too. But I did make my bets on the Republicans get back in.
 
Obama doesn't have the political instincts of either Clinton or Reagan, i.e. his 200 million dollar a day trip to India, nor does he have the economic policy of either. Reagan's was pro growth, pro business, and pro American taxpayer, Clinton's was adopting the GOP Contract with America, and Obama's is payback to his contituent groups. Obama if he doesn't do something to promote the private sector will be fired in 2012

We'll see. We'll see. ;)
 
Facts, don't bring facts into this discussion-soundbites, now that's more like it. do you know what soundbites are?
 
Facts, don't bring facts into this discussion-soundbites, now that's more like it. do you know what soundbites are?

I can't image any American not knowing. We love them. ;) :lamo :lamo
 
For many things that works just fine. But take medicine. You're daughter has been hurt, or is iill, or needs an expenive treatment. Explain to me how you negotiate. What's your leverage? Can you walk away? Go to a city with more than one hospital, is one much cheaperr than another? Not likely. What you describe works with those things you can reasonably effect by being able to walk away. Medicne lacks that control. So does education in a large way. Those most in need suffer not because the product is inferior, but because the obsticles in their path hinders everyone. Competition will only make that gap larger. A cheaper version, an inferior version will be created to take that poor money. Maybe give a grade, but not show concern for actual learning.

You completely avoided my question

Without competition for profits, how do we know what things should be priced?

Who sets the prices, and who/how can it ever be said that a price is too high or too low


So let’s take medicine. Nobody involved in medicine makes money in your world. How do we decide what to charge, and how do we know if that price is too high or too low?
 
You completely avoided my question

Without competition for profits, how do we know what things should be priced?

Who sets the prices, and who/how can it ever be said that a price is too high or too low


So let’s take medicine. Nobody involved in medicine makes money in your world. How do we decide what to charge, and how do we know if that price is too high or too low?

The federal government will tell us.
 
You completely avoided my question

Without competition for profits, how do we know what things should be priced?

Who sets the prices, and who/how can it ever be said that a price is too high or too low


So let’s take medicine. Nobody involved in medicine makes money in your world. How do we decide what to charge, and how do we know if that price is too high or too low?

I believe I answered that. There's a procedure. I was part owner of a little antiques shop a few years agoe. We had a formual for setting prices 9except for barbie Dolls as people who wanted those would pay any number I suggested). Competition played no role.

As for medicine and education, it would work much the same way. Competition as we have now with hospitals have not brough costs down. Nor is one hopsital in any city cheaper than another. Medicine avoids the cost controls that comeptiton brings because the consumer has little to know barganing power when push comes to shove. I can't say I'll take my injuried love one some place else, or price compare.
 
I believe I answered that. There's a procedure. I was part owner of a little antiques shop a few years agoe. We had a formual for setting prices 9except for barbie Dolls as people who wanted those would pay any number I suggested). Competition played no role.

As for medicine and education, it would work much the same way. Competition as we have now with hospitals have not brough costs down. Nor is one hopsital in any city cheaper than another. Medicine avoids the cost controls that comeptiton brings because the consumer has little to know barganing power when push comes to shove. I can't say I'll take my injuried love one some place else, or price compare.




This answers nothing. Your antique business was a for profit business. As I explained, you set your price to maximize your profits. In the case of Barbie dolls, you could set an extremely high price and not harm your profits because the supply/demand curve weighed heavily in your favor.

Now explain how you would set the price if it was illegal for you to make a profit. What should those Barbie dolls sell for? Keep in mind the person you bought them from can’t make a profit either. And the person that originally invented the Barbie doll can’t make a profit. How do we determine the price along this supply chain?
 
This answers nothing. Your antique business was a for profit business. As I explained, you set your price to maximize your profits. In the case of Barbie dolls, you could set an extremely high price and not harm your profits because the supply/demand curve weighed heavily in your favor.

Now explain how you would set the price if it was illegal for you to make a profit. What should those Barbie dolls sell for? Keep in mind the person you bought them from can’t make a profit either. And the person that originally invented the Barbie doll can’t make a profit. How do we determine the price along this supply chain?

You question was related to competition as I recall, but if you want to cahnge it to concern that the government will set it, that's fine. They would do no worse than insurance companies have in dealing with doctors and hospitals. Even with a universal payer system, individuals could still buy and pay for more. So, little to nothing would change. In fact, we might pay less, but hospitals and doctors would hardly go broke. They would all still make large profits. Nothing really changes much at all.
 
You question was related to competition as I recall, but if you want to cahnge it to concern that the government will set it, that's fine. They would do no worse than insurance companies have in dealing with doctors and hospitals.


You said that we removing profits from health care is the right way to go. When I asked how to determine the price you used a business designed to turn a profit to explain how prices are set. You have completely failed to answer my initial question

I did mention competition, but only to show how in the real world, prices can go down because of competition. In the real world, if you set a price too high, I can come in and steal your business with a better price. But making money is the key. I can’t set the price so low that I lose money in the transaction.

Now you reluctantly see that government has to determine the price. How? What information do they have to determine the correct price? If they set it too high, how can we show them that the price is too high? Nobody has an incentive to sell for less since they aren’t going to profit from doing so.

I’ll completely ignore the other issue of the lack of incentive to even think of new clothes and styles for the Barbie dolls since it isn’t going to make money anyway.


Even with a universal payer system, individuals could still buy and pay for more. So, little to nothing would change. In fact, we might pay less, but hospitals and doctors would hardly go broke. They would all still make large profits. Nothing really changes much at all.

Huh? There are no profits, remember. Not large profits, not small profits. No profits. This is what you said. Don‘t change it now.
 
You question was related to competition as I recall, but if you want to cahnge it to concern that the government will set it, that's fine. They would do no worse than insurance companies have in dealing with doctors and hospitals. Even with a universal payer system, individuals could still buy and pay for more. So, little to nothing would change. In fact, we might pay less, but hospitals and doctors would hardly go broke. They would all still make large profits. Nothing really changes much at all.

I see the talk from the right wing about "competition" and "profit" seems to ignore a few realities. One is that businesses have tried to reduce competition and form monopolies, resulting in sky high prices and sky high profits for them. Now, this probably would not work in your antiques business, since antiques are not a necessity, and you could easily price yourself out of business if your product or service is not a necessity.

However, if your product or service IS a necessity (food, shelter, health care, fuel) and you get together with your competitors to form a monopoly and/or agree not to compete on pricing, then you could get away with a a certain amount of price gouging.

The Sherman Antitrust Act (Sherman Antitrust Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) was enacted to outlaw the artificial raising of prices by restricting trade or supply.

Apparently, this law is not all encompassing, since businesses still get away with maximizing their profits by sleazy business practices.

I haven't had time to read through all 78 pages of this thread, but of the 60 or so that I have read, I just haven't seen anyone call for making profits illegal. My own comments were deploring the shady practices that businesses conducted (and, since all of them were doing the same thing, taking business elsewhere was not a realistic option) to maximize their profits further.
 
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