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2010 Midterm Results Discussion

Graffight said:
cool i'd like to read that if you have it :eek:) I wouldn't say that competition leads to inferior products as much as it leads to products more in line with what customer's want. If people want better price over quality then the thing with better price will sell better, or someone will find a way to make better quality for lower price...but this is so rarely the case that I don't see why it would even be a consideration. When it comes to education we're not talking about a consumable good, this is something that can be tested imperically, what will happen is when there is competition among schools, teachers will be held more accountable, they will think of more new and innovative ways to teach...instead of having corriculum dictated by a single entaty and distributed to the masses whether it's right or wrong.
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I'll look for it again. As for price versus quality, do we really want an inferior product in education and medicine? Really?
 
winston53660 said:
When I went to the ER there really was not time to price shop.
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And your bill from the hospital probably included some padding of expenses to cover the hospital's losses from unpaid bills by uninsured patients.
 
Conservative said:
Isn't competition great?
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When it's really there, yeah. Too bad it's just a figment of imagination in the minds of some conservatives who are constantly extolling the virtues of the (often illusory) "free market."
 
Graffight said:
cool i'd like to read that if you have it :eek:)
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"Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance," said Jack Jennings, the center's president and a former staffer in the Democratic-controlled House, in a press release. "Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background."

Read more: Are Private Schools Really Better? - TIME

The Answer Sheet - Are private schools better than public schools?
 
Conservative said:
This is going to be a titantic challenge between a Big Govt. liberal in the WH and the promise from the Republicans after last night's election

Republicans promise an era of limited government
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Maybe some day they'll actually keep that promise. [/sarcasm]
 
Birdzeye said:
When it's really there, yeah. Too bad it's just a figment of imagination in the minds of some conservatives who are constantly extolling the virtues of the (often illusory) "free market."
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I haven't seen any proof of your rants but I have seen a lot of proof of the failures of the liberal agenda. You cannot legislate stupidity which is what you seem to want to do. No one forced anyone to take out a credit card and then spend too much. No one forces you to buy from merchants that you deem "sleazy." You seem to want a Federal Govt. to legislate personal responsibility. Our govt. cannot even legislatate fiscal responsibility.
 
Birdzeye said:
Maybe some day they'll actually keep that promise. [/sarcasm]
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We shall see, my bet is they do and further bet that Obama will use the veto pen. Hope he does as those vetos will be used to defeat him in 2012
 
Conservative said:
We shall see, my bet is they do and further bet that Obama will use the veto pen. Hope he does as those vetos will be used to defeat him in 2012
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That assumes that the Republicans will actually DO anything. It will be interesting to see what ideas they actually have rather than their usual answer of No.
I'm optimistic....
 
Boo Radley said:
Health care and education.
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ARealConservative said:
how do we know what things should cost without two seeprate people competing for your business? what keeps them from just charging anything they want?
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bump. I notice you have not responded to my question.

please try to give an answer if you can. If you put a little thought into this, you might start seeing some problems with that you are suggesting.
 
Graffight said:
Having healthcare wouldn't be such a huge burden if there weren't so many regulations around the health care industry, and companies weren't giving out company healthcare policies, and our income wan't being tax'd and we got to keep more of our money....people wouldn't be dying of treatable desieses if they learned how to save up money to pay for things when emergencies instead of relying on credit cards to mortgage their lives. As much as I want everyone to get the help they need...and believe me I do....I don't want people's help to come at my forced expense. Nobody should have a right to my life except for me, even if they are dying. If i didn't cause that person's life, then it shoudn't be my responsibility, unless I choose for it to be.
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Once again, a lovely sounding platitude from the right wing that conveniently ignores some ugly realities.

My brother had major heart surgery earlier this year to treat a genetic heart defect that had become life-threatening. (IOW, he did not have heart problems because of unhealthy lifestyle.) The good news: he survived the surgery. The bad news: he has not recovered enough to be able to return to work, and his out of pocket medical expenses, which run into six figures, far more than his income, have forced him into bankruptcy.

This is not an unusual problem
 
disneydude said:
That assumes that the Republicans will actually DO anything. It will be interesting to see what ideas they actually have rather than their usual answer of No.
I'm optimistic....
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I hope the party of "NO" indeed says no to the bailout of the bankrupt states and will defund the Obama agenda. If they do that they will not only keep the House but take over the Senate in 2012
 
Boo Radley said:
"Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance," said Jack Jennings, the center's president and a former staffer in the Democratic-controlled House, in a press release. "Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background."

Read more: Are Private Schools Really Better? - TIME

The Answer Sheet - Are private schools better than public schools?
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They dont do better because they are in private schools, they do better because they just do?
 
Birdzeye said:
Once again, a lovely sounding platitude from the right wing that conveniently ignores some ugly realities.

My brother had major heart surgery earlier this year to treat a genetic heart defect that had become life-threatening. (IOW, he did not have heart problems because of unhealthy lifestyle.) The good news: he survived the surgery. The bad news: he has not recovered enough to be able to return to work, and his out of pocket medical expenses, which run into six figures, far more than his income, have forced him into bankruptcy.

This is not an unusual problem
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What prevented your brother from purchasing health insurance? Do you think you should pay for my healthcare?
 
j-mac said:
Which claim? That small business is the lion share of job providers in this country? or that Demo's taking the Obama blue pill got tossed last night?

Both are equally easy to prove.

j-mac
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Read the post I quoted earlier to see what I was suggesting that he prove. As for your post, if "both are equally easy to prove" (which doesn't mean that what you said is what I was asking for proof on) as you claim, why didn't you bother?
 
ARealConservative said:
bump. I notice you have not responded to my question.

please try to give an answer if you can. If you put a little thought into this, you might start seeing some problems with that you are suggesting.
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Didn't see it. How are prices ever set? equipment is marketed and competition only plays a small role. The orignial price is often set by cost a and a percentage of profit. This can eb done in a reasonable manner without competition.

I have to leave now, so if I miss another, just point it out to me.
 
Conservative said:
What prevented your brother from purchasing health insurance? Do you think you should pay for my healthcare?
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Why should I pay for your police protection or your fire protection? We should privatize police departments, fire departments, do away with parks/libraries.
Why should I pay for you to go to a library to check out a book, when there is Barnes and Noble?
 
Conservative said:
Tell me how you have been "screwed" by business? Why aren't you worried about the sleazy actions of the govt. instead of worrying about what you have control over. What I particular love about some people here is they believe they have a right to borrow money from whomever they want and then dictate the terms of that loan. That is the entitlement mentality of far too many. Who forces you to buy from anyone?
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I've had a credit card payment credited to my account AFTER the due date, even though the company got the payment well ahead of the due date, and gotten dinged with a late fee. More than once. You seem hell bent on deflecting away from any talk about shoddy private business practices in order to avoid having to acknowledge their existence, and conservatives' opposition of reforms in those areas. You can yammer about the government all you want (and I have been known to do that), but right now you're just trying to change the subject.
 
disneydude said:
Why should I pay for your police protection or your fire protection? We should privatize police departments, fire departments, do away with parks/libraries.
Why should I pay for you to go to a library to check out a book, when there is Barnes and Noble?
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You don't unless you live in TX. It does appear that like far too many you don't know what taxes fund what services. State and local taxes fund police and fire departments.
 
Boo Radley said:
Health care and education.
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ARealConservative said:
how do we know what things should cost without two seeprate people competing for your business? what keeps them from just charging anything they want?
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Boo Radley said:
Didn't see it. How are prices ever set? equipment is marketed and competition only plays a small role. The orignial price is often set by cost a and a percentage of profit. This can eb done in a reasonable manner without competition.

I have to leave now, so if I miss another, just point it out to me.
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This is easy.

in a capitalistic society prices are set to maximize profits. If your operating expenses are too high, or you charge too much because you want even more profit, competition can come in with a lower price, thereby stealing your business. If you don't adjust, you go out of business.

Explain how it works in a world where competition ceases to exist. how do prices get set and what pressure exists to push prices down?
 
disneydude said:
Why should I pay for your police protection or your fire protection? We should privatize police departments, fire departments, do away with parks/libraries.
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Limited government != No Government or anarchy

Why should I pay for you to go to a library to check out a book, when there is Barnes and Noble?
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Cost to benefit ratio. The cost of a library is miniscule compared to the benefit it does for learning and literacy for the country. Conversely the cost for universal health care, the only way you can make a legitimate comparison to libraries, would be substantial and far more difficult to argue that the benfeit far outweighs the cost.

If you're attempting to spend money at your home responsably that doesn't mean you can't do any leisure activities with your money anymore. It means you use LESS money for it though and try to get the most leisuer out of the least amount of money. If its your anniversary and you want to go out to eat instead of going to the 5 star luxury steak house you go to the 2 star local place that has a special going on. In both cases you get to go out, not have to bother cooking, and get a meal with just the two of you...but one is getting you a lot more of that compared to the amount you're paying.

Similarly, if you're looking at things to get rid of in your budget you look for what's least needed first, and then from those you see what will save you the most money. Even if you think Libraries are as wrong of a governmental service as Health Care the cost of health care is FAR greater and thus makes more sense to cut first.

Finally, I think you'd find that most conservatives would have no problem with Libraries being something funded primarily at a state, not federal, level. This allows states where the citizens want to focus their money they pay into those things can, but doesn't have the federal government meddling into things they should generally not be meddling in with regards to constitutionality.
 
Birdzeye said:
I've had a credit card payment credited to my account AFTER the due date, even though the company got the payment well ahead of the due date, and gotten dinged with a late fee. More than once. You seem hell bent on deflecting away from any talk about shoddy private business practices in order to avoid having to acknowledge their existence, and conservatives' opposition of reforms in those areas. You can yammer about the government all you want (and I have been known to do that), but right now you're just trying to change the subject.
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Did you call the credit card company to get the charge reversed? My bet is they did reverse the charge. Ever deal with a govt. bureaucrat and the mistakes they make? Shoddy business practices are always going to occur. You have a recourse against those business practices. Where does personal responsibility lie in your world. I have had late payments reversed because of credit card company errors so not sure what your problem is. Then there is always small claims court. I think you just love to complain.
 
Conservative said:
You don't unless you live in TX. It does appear that like far too many you don't know what taxes fund what services. State and local taxes fund police and fire departments.
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I understand that...I was speaking in the abstract. Why should taxpayers have to pay for your police/fire protection or pay for your ability to go a library and check out a book. You want to read...go to Barnes and Noble. You want fire protection, buy a hose. You want police protection, there are plenty of private security businesses that would be happy to take your money for their services.
 
Conservative said:
I haven't seen any proof of your rants but I have seen a lot of proof of the failures of the liberal agenda. You cannot legislate stupidity which is what you seem to want to do. No one forced anyone to take out a credit card and then spend too much. No one forces you to buy from merchants that you deem "sleazy." You seem to want a Federal Govt. to legislate personal responsibility. Our govt. cannot even legislatate fiscal responsibility.
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You must be turning a deaf ear to the legitimate complaints of consumers. The "liberal agenda" you are so eager to rant against is coming from the only people who have made any effort to reform certain shady business practices, despite conservative and corporate opposition to those reforms. I have already pointed out how I personally have been ripped off by some creative bookkeeping by a credit card holder at my expense; unfortunately, before the conservative-opposed reform laws got passed, practices such as those were so widespread as to make shopping around for a better deal (in terms of being treated right by the CC company) not a viable alternative. I was trying to be responsible (by paying my bill on time) and I got screwed anyways.
 
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