Page 78 of 113 FirstFirst ... 2868767778798088 ... LastLast
Results 771 to 780 of 1129

Thread: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

  1. #771
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    dimensionally transcendental
    Last Seen
    08-15-11 @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,153

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Or the insurance company.
    Or 'The Ghost Who Never Lies'.

  2. #772
    cookies crumble
    ARealConservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-21-17 @ 09:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,518

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I believe I answered that. There's a procedure. I was part owner of a little antiques shop a few years agoe. We had a formual for setting prices 9except for barbie Dolls as people who wanted those would pay any number I suggested). Competition played no role.

    As for medicine and education, it would work much the same way. Competition as we have now with hospitals have not brough costs down. Nor is one hopsital in any city cheaper than another. Medicine avoids the cost controls that comeptiton brings because the consumer has little to know barganing power when push comes to shove. I can't say I'll take my injuried love one some place else, or price compare.



    This answers nothing. Your antique business was a for profit business. As I explained, you set your price to maximize your profits. In the case of Barbie dolls, you could set an extremely high price and not harm your profits because the supply/demand curve weighed heavily in your favor.

    Now explain how you would set the price if it was illegal for you to make a profit. What should those Barbie dolls sell for? Keep in mind the person you bought them from can’t make a profit either. And the person that originally invented the Barbie doll can’t make a profit. How do we determine the price along this supply chain?

  3. #773
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    This answers nothing. Your antique business was a for profit business. As I explained, you set your price to maximize your profits. In the case of Barbie dolls, you could set an extremely high price and not harm your profits because the supply/demand curve weighed heavily in your favor.

    Now explain how you would set the price if it was illegal for you to make a profit. What should those Barbie dolls sell for? Keep in mind the person you bought them from can’t make a profit either. And the person that originally invented the Barbie doll can’t make a profit. How do we determine the price along this supply chain?
    You question was related to competition as I recall, but if you want to cahnge it to concern that the government will set it, that's fine. They would do no worse than insurance companies have in dealing with doctors and hospitals. Even with a universal payer system, individuals could still buy and pay for more. So, little to nothing would change. In fact, we might pay less, but hospitals and doctors would hardly go broke. They would all still make large profits. Nothing really changes much at all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #774
    cookies crumble
    ARealConservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-21-17 @ 09:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,518

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You question was related to competition as I recall, but if you want to cahnge it to concern that the government will set it, that's fine. They would do no worse than insurance companies have in dealing with doctors and hospitals.

    You said that we removing profits from health care is the right way to go. When I asked how to determine the price you used a business designed to turn a profit to explain how prices are set. You have completely failed to answer my initial question

    I did mention competition, but only to show how in the real world, prices can go down because of competition. In the real world, if you set a price too high, I can come in and steal your business with a better price. But making money is the key. I can’t set the price so low that I lose money in the transaction.

    Now you reluctantly see that government has to determine the price. How? What information do they have to determine the correct price? If they set it too high, how can we show them that the price is too high? Nobody has an incentive to sell for less since they aren’t going to profit from doing so.

    I’ll completely ignore the other issue of the lack of incentive to even think of new clothes and styles for the Barbie dolls since it isn’t going to make money anyway.


    Even with a universal payer system, individuals could still buy and pay for more. So, little to nothing would change. In fact, we might pay less, but hospitals and doctors would hardly go broke. They would all still make large profits. Nothing really changes much at all.
    Huh? There are no profits, remember. Not large profits, not small profits. No profits. This is what you said. Don‘t change it now.

  5. #775
    Advisor Birdzeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    East Coast - mid Atlantic
    Last Seen
    12-10-16 @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    341

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You question was related to competition as I recall, but if you want to cahnge it to concern that the government will set it, that's fine. They would do no worse than insurance companies have in dealing with doctors and hospitals. Even with a universal payer system, individuals could still buy and pay for more. So, little to nothing would change. In fact, we might pay less, but hospitals and doctors would hardly go broke. They would all still make large profits. Nothing really changes much at all.
    I see the talk from the right wing about "competition" and "profit" seems to ignore a few realities. One is that businesses have tried to reduce competition and form monopolies, resulting in sky high prices and sky high profits for them. Now, this probably would not work in your antiques business, since antiques are not a necessity, and you could easily price yourself out of business if your product or service is not a necessity.

    However, if your product or service IS a necessity (food, shelter, health care, fuel) and you get together with your competitors to form a monopoly and/or agree not to compete on pricing, then you could get away with a a certain amount of price gouging.

    The Sherman Antitrust Act (Sherman Antitrust Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) was enacted to outlaw the artificial raising of prices by restricting trade or supply.

    Apparently, this law is not all encompassing, since businesses still get away with maximizing their profits by sleazy business practices.

    I haven't had time to read through all 78 pages of this thread, but of the 60 or so that I have read, I just haven't seen anyone call for making profits illegal. My own comments were deploring the shady practices that businesses conducted (and, since all of them were doing the same thing, taking business elsewhere was not a realistic option) to maximize their profits further.

  6. #776
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    [QUOTE=ARealConservative;1059081962]
    You said that we removing profits from health care is the right way to go. When I asked how to determine the price you used a business designed to turn a profit to explain how prices are set. You have completely failed to answer my initial question

    I did mention competition, but only to show how in the real world, prices can go down because of competition. In the real world, if you set a price too high, I can come in and steal your business with a better price. But making money is the key. I can’t set the price so low that I lose money in the transaction.

    Now you reluctantly see that government has to determine the price. How? What information do they have to determine the correct price? If they set it too high, how can we show them that the price is too high? Nobody has an incentive to sell for less since they aren’t going to profit from doing so.

    I’ll completely ignore the other issue of the lack of incentive to even think of new clothes and styles for the Barbie dolls since it isn’t going to make money anyway.

    I think you misread what I've said, but the government would set it the same way we did. Doctors in Canda still get paid. Make a hundred thousand or more, depending on field, yearly. So do hospitals and nurses, and suppliers. they negotiate and use a formual to set prices. It's not a mystery.

    And profit isn't the only incentive. A good number of the break throughs in medicine are done at state univeristies, with state money. I believe you're premise is flawed. People don't stop solving problems just because they are paid by the government.

    Huh? There are no profits, remember. Not large profits, not small profits. No profits. This is what you said. Don‘t change it now.
    Who said there is NO profit? That too would be a flawed premise. No one I know of suggests no profit for anyone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #777
    cookies crumble
    ARealConservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-21-17 @ 09:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,518

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
    I see the talk from the right wing about "competition" and "profit" seems to ignore a few realities. One is that businesses have tried to reduce competition and form monopolies, resulting in sky high prices and sky high profits for them. Now, this probably would not work in your antiques business, since antiques are not a necessity, and you could easily price yourself out of business if your product or service is not a necessity.
    So you are so scared of monopolies that you give the biggest monopoly the power to protect you? Government is a monopoly. Do you understand this reality?

    However, if your product or service IS a necessity (food, shelter, health care, fuel) and you get together with your competitors to form a monopoly and/or agree not to compete on pricing, then you could get away with a a certain amount of price gouging.
    And a valid function of government monopoly is to make this illegal. So your straw man is a non starter.

    I haven't had time to read through all 78 pages of this thread, but of the 60 or so that I have read, I just haven't seen anyone call for making profits illegal.
    Ignorance is not a valid debate tactic. Boo indeed said that we must take profits out of the equation.

  8. #778
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Not sure why you think I said that, but let me clarify: I do not anywhere mean NO profit for anyone. We all have to make a living. So do people in medicine. But, the consumer is at a disticnt disadvantage, so profits have to take a backseat, as it were, to need. Everyone will still profit. But, everyone needs to be able to have adequate care, regardless of wealth. I call for a universal payer, (means paying money and not providing free care where no one gets paid).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #779
    Debate MMA
    Prof. Peabody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Seen
    07-30-12 @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,361

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
    The way GOPers have thought about "moderation" all these years?
    Moderates cost us the elections in '06 and '08. Taking advice from ones adversaries is always a foolish idea. All moving to the middle did for conservatives was allow the left to move further left, which they did and cosequently the reason they suffered the worst defeat in the House since 1938.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  10. #780
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: 2010 Midterm Results Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Moderates cost us the elections in '06 and '08. Taking advice from ones adversaries is always a foolish idea. All moving to the middle did for conservatives was allow the left to move further left, which they did and cosequently the reason they suffered the worst defeat in the House since 1938.
    Wish we actually had three parties that were actually conservative, liberal and moderate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Page 78 of 113 FirstFirst ... 2868767778798088 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •