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Thread: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But says nothing about homosexuality. The specific parts I speak of are the homosexuality parts. I do wish I had the books with me today, but it has been years.
    Did he have to? I mean "let not man separate" is pretty clear. No one can redefine or break up a marriage without being involved in sin, period. Homosexuality by it's very nature is a sin as two men cannot be married according to this quote. This means any same sex couple is guilty of fornication at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Wem moved in opposite directions. Someday it might be fun to discuss our journey. But for today, God bless you as well my friend.
    We will, that would be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More that I see the Bible as the begining of the conversation and not the end of it. It has been around a long time, touched by man, who are imperfect. That said, my reading of it has convinced me that it was not intended to be absolute, the end of the search, but instead a beginging that we were to use to sart our search. During Jesus' time, homosexuality was everywhere, yet he speaks to in personally nowhere. I find that odd if it is the sin suggested.

    As I've mentioned, I'm theologically conservative. I believe that the Bible contains God's message to his creation, humanity. Yes, proper interpretation is important, but the first principle of hermaneutics is "interpret scripture with more scripture".

    Arguments that depart from the Bible or question its legitimacy are not going to sway my view on a matter of Christian theology.

    Jesus did not speak on every concievable matter in the world. He didn't need to, as we have the Bible as a whole to refer to. I take the words of the Apostles very seriously as well, because Jesus conferred on them the authority to speak on such matters.

    When engaged in serious Bible study, I use Greek and Hebrew lexicons, view the original text, and try to make sure of the meaning of all key words involved. I have heard the arguments about how the homosexuality being referenced referred to certain "pagan" practices, and am not convinced that this is the case. I've argued the meaning of arsenokoites and Greek pederasty with persons well-read on the subject, and they have not persuaded me that scripture does not mean what it appears to plainly say.

    If someone had some new argument to make, I'd examine it. I haven't seen one in quite a while.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Did he have to? I mean "let not man separate" is pretty clear. No one can redefine or break up a marriage without being involved in sin, period. Homosexuality by it's very nature is a sin as two men cannot be married according to this quote. This means any same sex couple is guilty of fornication at least.
    I think that is very debatable, but let me ask this: what is sin?



    We will, that would be interesting.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think that is very debatable, but let me ask this: what is sin?
    Now you know as well as I do that is another thread, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I've mentioned, I'm theologically conservative. I believe that the Bible contains God's message to his creation, humanity. Yes, proper interpretation is important, but the first principle of hermaneutics is "interpret scripture with more scripture".

    Arguments that depart from the Bible or question its legitimacy are not going to sway my view on a matter of Christian theology.

    Jesus did not speak on every concievable matter in the world. He didn't need to, as we have the Bible as a whole to refer to. I take the words of the Apostles very seriously as well, because Jesus conferred on them the authority to speak on such matters.

    When engaged in serious Bible study, I use Greek and Hebrew lexicons, view the original text, and try to make sure of the meaning of all key words involved. I have heard the arguments about how the homosexuality being referenced referred to certain "pagan" practices, and am not convinced that this is the case. I've argued the meaning of arsenokoites and Greek pederasty with persons well-read on the subject, and they have not persuaded me that scripture does not mean what it appears to plainly say.

    If someone had some new argument to make, I'd examine it. I haven't seen one in quite a while.
    I can't read greek and hebrew, but have no problem listening to those who can. As i have said, I've read a few books on the subject. And when discussing mistranslations, you do have to step outside the text to hear from someone who has studied and can read the orginial. Those who refer to pagan practices do refer to the original maenings of the words use used and the context, which is a reasonable approach.

    For me, this raises doubt. Kind of like the concept of reasonable doubt. I'm not prepared to "convict" anyone based on something that can be reasonably doubted. And I have listen to both sides with people who are well read. I don't need them to agree to be convinced, nor do i need the side i want to be true to be convinced. I just need there to be doubt to make me pause.

    Like I said, I see the Bible as the beginning and not the end.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Now you know as well as I do that is another thread, lol.
    Yes it is, but essential to how we apporach those who commit sin, as we all do.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not prepared to "convict" anyone based on something that can be reasonably doubted.
    Well, you are off the hook entirely. We are clearly instructed as Christians not to be in the conviction business, but to have discernment. Conviction, or judgment is more than subtly different than discernment, and it is not ours to do.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More that I see the Bible as the begining of the conversation and not the end of it. It has been around a long time, touched by man, who are imperfect. That said, my reading of it has convinced me that it was not intended to be absolute, the end of the search, but instead a beginging that we were to use to sart our search. During Jesus' time, homosexuality was everywhere, yet he speaks to in personally nowhere. I find that odd if it is the sin suggested.
    If the Bible was not meant to be absolutely, then does that mean that we are interpreting a dead bible??!?

    I hate having to argue whether something as big and as universal as the bible is absolute or not because, obviously, it covers too many topics to simply say "nah, it doesn't mean this at all!" or w/e. where it is absolute, it is absolute, and where it's not, it's not. Period.
    Last edited by DarkWizard12; 10-31-10 at 06:15 PM.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Did he have to? I mean "let not man separate" is pretty clear. No one can redefine or break up a marriage without being involved in sin, period. Homosexuality by it's very nature is a sin as two men cannot be married according to this quote. This means any same sex couple is guilty of fornication at least.



    We will, that would be interesting.
    Jesus affords divorce in the event of adultery, so yes, the faithfull spouce can be both involved with braking up a marriage and innocent at the same time.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've read books on the matter. And I think the Bible says very little. Much in the old testiment is a mistranslation, refering to behavior related to a ceremonial observance and including heterosexual sex as well. And much in the new testement has been added. King James added a lot during a time of the believe in Naturalism, and many translation come from that effort, not wanting to diviate too far from the current accepted reading.

    I can't link the books at this point, but would suggest visiting your library, but this web site gives a fair is incomplete overview:

    Homosexuality and bisexuality

    BTW, I'm a Catholic who grew up Baptist.
    Catholic? Man, do I have a joke for you......

    An altar boy went to confession, and the priest asked if he had any sins to admit. Said the boy, "I had sex with a loose girl in school". The priest said "You are a fine young lad, but you know you have sinned, and must confess who you had sex with, in order to ontain absolution". The boy replied "I can't tell. I am sorry". So the priest, in order to find out who the girl was, began asking him some questions.

    "Was it Maria"? "No", the boy replied. "Was it Becky"? "No", the boy replied. "Was it Cindy"? "No", the boy replied. "Was it Valerie"? "No", the boy replied. "Was it Vicky"? "No", the boy replied. At that point the priest said "I respect your silence on naming names, but I must punish you. You are barred from being an altar boy for the next month. Now go say your Hail Marys and Our Fathers".

    After the boy got out of the confessional, a friend of his asked "How did it go in there"? The boy replied "It went great. I got a 4 week vacation and 5 leads".
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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