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Thread: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

  1. #101
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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Let us assume that I were a Jeffersonian Christian. In other words, if I followed the Jefferson Bible. How likely would I be to percieve homosexuality as a sin? Furthermore, why would his Bible be any less valid than the one that was crafted by ancient religious leaders who were motivated by their own political ambitions?
    Well, the Bible is a book of faith, so I'm not going to try to prove its legitimacy. People have their own personal reasons for belief. However, I can tell you that it is more "valid" than some other books based on several reasons. Just take for example the Smithsonian statement regarding the Book of Mormon "The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archeologists see no direct connection between the archeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book."

    Then look at its statement on the Bible "Much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories. These Biblical records can be and are used as are other ancient documents in archeological work. For the most part, historical events described took place and the peoples cited really existed. This is not to say that names of all peoples and places mentioned can be identified today, or that every event as reported in the historical books happened exactly as stated. There are conflicts between present archeological evidence and historical reports that may result from a lack of information on our part or from misunderstandings or mistakes by the ancient writers."

    I don't feel silly putting faith in the Bible.
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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    I think its the way people have used the Bible in negative ways, the controversial history of the Catholic church, and they way modern right wing Christians come off as discriminatory, closed minded and dogmatic, that has turned many people off from the Christianity. The Bible, even with its many contradictions and Old Testament wrath, is a great spiritual book and I think it is filled with some profound truths. Ghandi said it the best "I'd probably be a Christian if I ever met one".
    Oh, I recognize what you are arguing, but I find much more absurd than that.

    A question! If men who felt the Earth was flat, was the center of the universe, and who didn't even know that Pi is 3.14159, were to come up to you and inform you that they had compiled a book to tell you exactly how you should live your life, would you buy into it?

    Modern day Christians do. And I absolutely love them for it. To listen to the writings of ancient men who knew considerably less than them and follow it so literally just because those ancient men claimed that their writings came from a supernatural deity, is deliciously absurd!

    Why stop there? Why not believe in Zeus? Why not believe in Odin? I mean, if we are going to take the writings of ancient men so seriously and live our lives in accordance with people who didn't even know how to cook sea food properly...

    Maybe I'll ask a caveman how to do Calculas while I am at it.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 10-29-10 at 11:24 PM.

  3. #103
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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    I'm not quite sure what's so negative about being a 'sinner'. Does being a sinner equate to being bad and punished in the hypothetical afterlife by some supernatural entity? If so, then it's time to find another religion. Seems like a pretty simple solution.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Let us assume that I were a Jeffersonian Christian. In other words, if I followed the Jefferson Bible. How likely would I be to percieve homosexuality as a sin? Furthermore, why would his Bible be any less valid than the one that was crafted by ancient religious leaders who were motivated by their own political ambitions?

    It depends on your perspective, in a sense. However, Jefferson edited his Bible rather drastically. What was left would not be considered representative of Christianity by any reasonable measure... Deist, rather, as Jefferson himself was.

    There are theologically-liberal churches who do not hold to traditional interpretations who do not consider homosexual behavior to be a sin, this is true. I acknowleged this when I noted that denominations that tend to be relatively literalist usually call homosexual behavior sinful.

    In dealing with matters of faith, why a person believes this way and not that way typically ends up in issues of personal spiritual experiences and heartfelt convictions, and arguing these matters is rarely productive.

    In short, no... most Christians would not consider a person following the Jefferson-edited Bible to be a fellow Christian.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    I don't feel silly putting faith in the Bible.
    Religion = one part historical fact mixed with one part cultural myth.

    Faith is just another way of saying you refuse to thnk about it.

  6. #106
    Student Johnny DooWop's Avatar
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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Oh, I recognize what you are arguing, but I find much more absurd than that.

    A question! If men who felt the Earth was flat, was the center of the universe, and who didn't even know that Pi is 3.14159, were to come up to you and inform you that they had compiled a book to tell you exactly how you should live your life, would you buy into it?

    Modern day Christians do. And I absolutely love them for it. To listen to the writings of ancient men who knew considerably less than them and follow it so literally just because those ancient men claimed that their writings came from a supernatural deity, is deliciously absurd!

    Why stop there? Why not believe in Zeus? Why not believe in Odin? I mean, if we are going to take the writings of ancient men so seriously and live our lives in accordance with people who didn't even know how to cook sea food properly...

    Maybe I'll ask a caveman how to do Calculas while I am at it.
    One thing that trips me out about the Jews/Hebrews compared to other "ancient men" is their historical journey that was predicted from the beginnings of the Bible. They were deemed to be God's "chosen" people who were to usher in monotheism to the rest of the world. This was written back when almost the entire world was still polythiestic/pagan. And guess what happened? This small nomadic tribe did infact, somehow, end up spreading monotheism throughout the entire world. Then it is told that they will be repelled from their land by enemies, and then scattered, dispersed and persecuted. These things were being written from 500 B.C. and much earlier. As we know, these things came to pass when Rome sacked Jerusalem in AD 70 and the Jews lived scattered throughout Europe for the next 2000 years being persecuted almost everywhere they went. However, in those same prophetic scriptures it said the Jews would eventually get their land back one day. Now of course, anyone who lived before 1948 must have thought this was certainly a prediction that was wrong. After all, the Jews had not inhabited Israel (or Palestine as it was know for most of that time) for nearly 2000 years. But what happened? In 1948 they got their country back. As a student of History (I have my BA in History) I don't know of any other race or ethnic group that has survived 2,000 years in foreign lands without being assimilated into the culture of that land and fading away, and then, above all, getting their original country back after 2000 years! And to know that this was all written in old scriptures way before these events ever happened? I don't care if you believe in the Bible or not, any serious history student must admit those are significant anomalies in the study of history and anthropology.
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    Student Johnny DooWop's Avatar
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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post

    Faith is just another way of saying you refuse to thnk about it.
    Funny thing is, you can no more prove that these beliefs are false any better than Christians can prove they are true. Taking the stance that these beliefs are false without any definite proof is equally fallible in the pursuit of logical thought as saying those beliefs are true without definite proof.
    I'll keep my guns, freedom and money, you can keep the change.

    Math equation for soldiers: M+16=0 terrorist

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Let us assume that I were a Jeffersonian Christian. In other words, if I followed the Jefferson Bible. How likely would I be to percieve homosexuality as a sin? Furthermore, why would his Bible be any less valid than the one that was crafted by ancient religious leaders who were motivated by their own political ambitions?
    I've never read the "jefferson bible", although I have heard of it. If this is the case, I suppose it just makes you a jeffersonian christian.

    Furthermore, why would his Bible be any less valid than the one that was crafted by ancient religious leaders who were motivated by their own political ambitions?
    why do you beat your wife?

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I'm not quite sure what's so negative about being a 'sinner'. Does being a sinner equate to being bad and punished in the hypothetical afterlife by some supernatural entity? If so, then it's time to find another religion. Seems like a pretty simple solution.
    not really no. Christ himself, offers a way out of the spiritual consequence of sin, so there is no need to worry.

    A sin is merely a spiritual transgression of religious custom, nothing more, some just seem to want to pretend they aren't sinners.

    Homosexuality is a sin in christianity. Sorry, I wasn't "chosen" to be it's founder. It's not a big deal though, everyone is a sinner. But it's a sin regardless, according to christianity, whether you like it or not, CT.

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    Re: Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Funny thing is, you can no more prove that these beliefs are false any better than Christians can prove they are true. Taking the stance that these beliefs are false without any definite proof is equally fallible in the pursuit of logical thought as saying those beliefs are true without definite proof.
    I never said they were false. I simply said I don't take advice from people who know less than me, so I find it strange that modern day Christians take advice from ancient nomads who most certainly knew less than them. That is simply my observation.

    I also know that life did not get considerably better for man when he adopted Christianity. For instance, life expectancy and infant mortality did not considerably improve. However, the advent of medical science 150 years ago did change things quite dramatically for man and things like life expectancy and infant mortality drastically improved. Not to sound too sarcastic, but it would seem to me that God should have taken some time in his book to mention sanitation and antibiotics.

    I dunno, I may be wrong. I'm quite comfortable with the idea of being wrong. I have nothing to prove or disprove, I simply enjoy making observations of human behavior.

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