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Thread: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

  1. #151
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Don't you support the patriot act?
    You're totally missing the point and that question proves it.

    I'm playing the devil's advocate and asking why the DADT abolitionists demand constitutional rights for some, but not for all.

    The hypocrisy has come glaring through, like a 25mm tracer round streaking across a gunnery range, at night.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're totally missing the point and that question proves it.

    I'm playing the devil's advocate and asking why the DADT abolitionists demand constitutional rights for some, but not for all.

    The hypocrisy has come glaring through, like a 25mm tracer round streaking across a gunnery range, at night.
    Well said. I'm sick of this liberal reverse discremination. I say let them all in, KKK, gays, Neo-Nazis, Black Panthers, as long as they are American citizens and are willing to die for the man fighting next to them. Any real soldier knows when you're in a fire fight, the real cause you're fighting for is the man standing next to you, and that is about as evident as a 5.56 round that comes spinning out of the barrel of a M4 at 2,900ft per second and then slams through a terrorist forehead.
    I'll keep my guns, freedom and money, you can keep the change.

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  3. #153
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Well said. I'm sick of this liberal reverse discremination. I say let them all in, KKK, gays, Neo-Nazis, Black Panthers, as long as they are American citizens and are willing to die for the man fighting next to them. Any real soldier knows when you're in a fire fight, the real cause you're fighting for is the man standing next to you, and that is about as evident as a 5.56 round that comes spinning out of the barrel of a M4 at 2,900ft per second and then slams through a terrorist forehead.
    They're all brothers in arms, according to the Leftists, that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #154
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I am sorry DD but the facts just don't show that to be the case.........Its true Bush spent like a drunken soldier but Hussein Obama and his crew has tripled what Bush has spent without any way to pay for it...........Why do you think the massacure of democrats is happening tomorrow? Hussein Obama is just lucky he is not on the ballot to or he would be out the door on his ass where he belongs........
    As usual, you are dead wrong. The numbers of Republicans coming out is not substantially higher than in past elections. The difference is that Democrats are staying home.
    So, its not really an embracing of your Republican policies as much as it is showing discontent that the Democrats are not happy with what Democrats have been doing.

    In other words, Democrats are staying home because they figure that if Democrats are going to act like Republicans, whats the use in voting?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  5. #155
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They're all brothers in arms, according to the Leftists, that is.
    Not really. You have to take into consideration the message being given by the group.

    The IKA (official name for the KKK now) website:
    Imperial Klans of America International Headquarters
    Notice the last paragraph specifically. This group is not tolerant of non-white people at all. It must be assumed that someone who is a member of such a group would also not be tolerant of non-whites.

    The military does not allow membership by its members into any group that is connected to criminal activities and/or that advocates intolerance (with or without violence) against others. This would most certainly cause disruptions in morale and good order and discipline. The military insists that all members have tolerance toward all people, no matter race, religion, or sex. This is because all members of the military must work with others in the military of different races, religions, and genders, at one time or another. So how can a military member abide by this rule and still be a member of any group that advocates for intolerance due to any of these traits? It really doesn't work. You can't have trust in someone that you are intolerant of because of a trait that can't be changed, and they certainly are not going to be tolerant of a you if they find out that you don't like them just because of their race, religion, or gender.

    Being a homosexual does not make you a member of any "group" that advocates intolerance for any trait, just like just being heterosexual does not, in itself, mean that you a member of a group advocating intolerance for some trait.

    Also, this should be obvious, but by "trait", I do not mean the "trait" of intolerance. In order to compare homosexuals to members of the KKK or terrorist organizations, you would have to show how just being homosexual makes a person somehow intolerant of someone else because of that person's race or religion or gender, something along these lines or how they are advocating criminal activity (and sodomy is a) not necessarily practiced by every single person who is homosexual and b) not actually illegal, just against the UCMJ, for now).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  6. #156
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Because closed minds and old attitudes die hard.
    The problem with you is that it doesn't end there. You feel the same way about the Constitution.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  7. #157
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The problem with you is that it doesn't end there. You feel the same way about the Constitution.
    Your post makes Zero sense....perhaps if you care to elablorate a bit, I'd be happy to respond.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not really. You have to take into consideration the message being given by the group.

    The IKA (official name for the KKK now) website:
    Imperial Klans of America International Headquarters
    Notice the last paragraph specifically. This group is not tolerant of non-white people at all. It must be assumed that someone who is a member of such a group would also not be tolerant of non-whites.

    The military does not allow membership by its members into any group that is connected to criminal activities and/or that advocates intolerance (with or without violence) against others. This would most certainly cause disruptions in morale and good order and discipline. The military insists that all members have tolerance toward all people, no matter race, religion, or sex. This is because all members of the military must work with others in the military of different races, religions, and genders, at one time or another. So how can a military member abide by this rule and still be a member of any group that advocates for intolerance due to any of these traits? It really doesn't work. You can't have trust in someone that you are intolerant of because of a trait that can't be changed, and they certainly are not going to be tolerant of a you if they find out that you don't like them just because of their race, religion, or gender.

    Being a homosexual does not make you a member of any "group" that advocates intolerance for any trait, just like just being heterosexual does not, in itself, mean that you a member of a group advocating intolerance for some trait.

    Also, this should be obvious, but by "trait", I do not mean the "trait" of intolerance. In order to compare homosexuals to members of the KKK or terrorist organizations, you would have to show how just being homosexual makes a person somehow intolerant of someone else because of that person's race or religion or gender, something along these lines or how they are advocating criminal activity (and sodomy is a) not necessarily practiced by every single person who is homosexual and b) not actually illegal, just against the UCMJ, for now).
    The only thing that should matter to the, "it's the constitutional right of gays to serve openly in the military" Liberals, is that it's their constitutional right to be a a member--while off duty and out of uniform of course--of any orginization they please.

    Is this, yet another case of Liberals using the Constitution only when it suits their needs, then cast it aside, when it no longer supports their agenda?

    There's also a ban on service members attending political rallies, in uniform. Are you ready to lift that ban, as well?

    The military does not allow membership by its members into any group that is connected to criminal activities and/or that advocates intolerance (with or without violence) against others. This would most certainly cause disruptions in morale and good order and discipline.
    Are you saying that our service members aren't mature and professional enough to look past all that crap and soldier on?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The only thing that should matter to the, "it's the constitutional right of gays to serve openly in the military" Liberals, is that it's their constitutional right to be a a member--while off duty and out of uniform of course--of any orginization they please.

    Is this, yet another case of Liberals using the Constitution only when it suits their needs, then cast it aside, when it no longer supports their agenda?

    There's also a ban on service members attending political rallies, in uniform. Are you ready to lift that ban, as well?



    Are you saying that our service members aren't mature and professional enough to look past all that crap and soldier on?
    The "constitutional right" argument comes from the fact that people should be able to join and serve without fearing discharge if their conduct is not actually going to harm the service. When it comes to being a member of certain organizations, such as the KKK, the "harm" comes from a lack of trust and loyalty. A servicemember cannot do his best on the job if he has to work with people he does not trust or believes are inferior to him just because of their skin color or their religion or their gender or something of this nature. And it would be quite hard for those people that work with him that he can't "tolerate" to trust him if they found out that he considers himself to be superior because of his race/religion/beliefs/gender. What if the person with biases becomes a supervisor or in any way has some control over other servicemembers' careers? This would be no different then why there are rules concerning fraternization. These things can be shown to have demonstrable harm on morale, discipline and unit cohesion.

    Homosexuality is not the same thing as the above. Saying that you are homosexual is not saying that you believe yourself to be superior to someone of a different race or gender or religion or even sexuality. It is just saying that you are attracted to people of the same sex that you are. The only "harm" to morale, discipline, or unit cohesion that could come from being homosexual is from inappropriate relationships or other actions, which are covered by other rules, or from other servicemembers' intolerance. It would be comparable to a servicemember saying that they are attracted to people of a different race or being attracted to no one at all, and other service members having a problem with this.

    The issue with wearing a uniform to a political event is the fact that when a servicemember is in uniform, they are an official representative of the US military. This means that by wearing a uniform to a political event, a servicemember is saying that the US military supports that side of the issue or that cause, even if it isn't true. There is no need for a servicemember to wear a uniform to a political event. And, besides, wearing any clothes is an action, not who someone is.

    You still have not demonstrated how being gay can actually cause harm. I can provide proof that just being a member of a terrorist group or the KKK could cause harm to the unit. So, you need to show how being openly gay, not any of the actions such as inappropriate relationships or unwanted advances, can actually cause harm. The no-openly-gay rule is the rule that people find unfair, not the fraternization or sexual harassment rules, which would cover both homosexuals and heterosexuals for performing such actions.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  10. #160
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The "constitutional right" argument comes from the fact that people should be able to join and serve without fearing discharge if their conduct is not actually going to harm the service. When it comes to being a member of certain organizations, such as the KKK, the "harm" comes from a lack of trust and loyalty. A servicemember cannot do his best on the job if he has to work with people he does not trust or believes are inferior to him just because of their skin color or their religion or their gender or something of this nature. And it would be quite hard for those people that work with him that he can't "tolerate" to trust him if they found out that he considers himself to be superior because of his race/religion/beliefs/gender. What if the person with biases becomes a supervisor or in any way has some control over other servicemembers' careers? This would be no different then why there are rules concerning fraternization. These things can be shown to have demonstrable harm on morale, discipline and unit cohesion.
    That's exactly right and if a soldier's membership in the KKK doesn't harm the service, then he/she should be able to do so.

    Homosexuality is not the same thing as the above. Saying that you are homosexual is not saying that you believe yourself to be superior to someone of a different race or gender or religion or even sexuality. It is just saying that you are attracted to people of the same sex that you are. The only "harm" to morale, discipline, or unit cohesion that could come from being homosexual is from inappropriate relationships or other actions, which are covered by other rules, or from other servicemembers' intolerance. It would be comparable to a servicemember saying that they are attracted to people of a different race or being attracted to no one at all, and other service members having a problem with this.
    Some people think that gays in the military would have the same negative effect as membership in a racial hate group. I guess they're all homophobes, racist and bigots?

    The issue with wearing a uniform to a political event is the fact that when a servicemember is in uniform, they are an official representative of the US military. This means that by wearing a uniform to a political event, a servicemember is saying that the US military supports that side of the issue or that cause, even if it isn't true. There is no need for a servicemember to wear a uniform to a political event. And, besides, wearing any clothes is an action, not who someone is.
    Right, again. Very good. That's why a service member attending a klan rally, out of uniform, should be ok.

    You still have not demonstrated how being gay can actually cause harm. I can provide proof that just being a member of a terrorist group or the KKK could cause harm to the unit. So, you need to show how being openly gay, not any of the actions such as inappropriate relationships or unwanted advances, can actually cause harm. The no-openly-gay rule is the rule that people find unfair, not the fraternization or sexual harassment rules, which would cover both homosexuals and heterosexuals for performing such actions.
    UK Gay News - Gay Soldier Attacked at Fort Huachuca is Discharged From US Army

    And, you can prove that, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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