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Thread: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

  1. #111
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Where is the constitutional right to serve in the military?
    This, again?!?

    Do you understand how that question totally kills the your argument against DADT??

    Gays don't have the constitutional right to serve in the military????

    Hillarious!!!!
    Last edited by apdst; 11-01-10 at 12:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's not at all what we're discussing. We're discussing constitutional rights.
    So then we're discussing whether they're the same among other things?

    The answer is no. They're not. They're not constitutionally or legally the same.

    Your next question would be: Do you have the right to join the KKK and be a member of the military?

    Well you have the right to join the KKK. Use of this right means your forfeit your ability join the military but only because the KKK, you know, is an organization which is guilty of domestic terrorism. That shows a serious conflict of interest if your job is to protect the country. The same goes for anyone who joins a criminal organization and yet pretends they are going to 'protect' our country.

    Why are they not the same?

    Well for one, there is no illegal activity one must pursue in order to be gay. Sodomy has been outlawed for well over 50 years in most places. The same goes for homosexuality itself (they're not the same). Legally, there is no way any kind of law enforcement could get warrants to wiretap somebody simply because they are gay. The same same can't be said for being a member of the Latin Kings. Being a member of such organization is sufficient enough for law enforcement to look into your person.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #113
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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then we're discussing whether they're the same among other things?

    The answer is no. They're not. They're not constitutionally or legally the same.

    Your next question would be: Do you have the right to join the KKK and be a member of the military?

    Well you have the right to join the KKK. Use of this right means your forfeit your ability join the military but only because the KKK, you know, is an organization which is guilty of domestic terrorism. That shows a serious conflict of interest if your job is to protect the country. The same goes for anyone who joins a criminal organization and yet pretends they are going to 'protect' our country.

    Why are they not the same?

    Well for one, there is no illegal activity one must pursue in order to be gay. Sodomy has been outlawed for well over 50 years in most places. The same goes for homosexuality itself (they're not the same). Legally, there is no way any kind of law enforcement could get warrants to wiretap somebody simply because they are gay. The same same can't be said for being a member of the Latin Kings. Being a member of such organization is sufficient enough for law enforcement to look into your person.
    What's constitutionally protected from one, is constitutionally protected for the other.

    Since membership in the KKK is protected by the Consitution, as is gays serving openly in the military, you have no choice but to support the rights of service members to be members of the KKK, Nazis, Skin Heads, Black Panthers, etc.

    BTW, sodomy is still a crime in the military. So, yes, there is illegal activity to be pursued, by being gay.

    I'm not condoning, nor condemning either one, either way. I'm only going by the logic set forth by your side of the argument. Why aren't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What's constitutionally protected from one, is constitutionally protected for the other.
    Sure it is. The Federal Government(you know, the people who sign paychecks for the military) can't constitutionally discriminate against anyone because of their sexuality. They can however discriminate against anyone who is a member of a criminal and terrorist organization.

    Since membership in the KKK is protected by the Consitution, as is gays serving openly in the military, you have no choice but to support the rights of service members to be members of the KKK, Nazis, Skin Heads, Black Panthers, etc.
    As being gay does not mean one necessarily engages in any criminal OR terrorist activity, then they are not equally protected. Being a member of such groups is optional. Being gay is not. Seriously, are your parents home? Because I find it necessary that you understand this simply notion about what the Constitution does and doesn't do.

    BTW, sodomy is still a crime in the military. So, yes, there is illegal activity to be pursued, by being gay.
    Sure it is. However sodomy refers to the act of penal penetration into the anus. Not a homosexual act itself. How come we don't see straights being kicked out because they may or may not engage in sodomy outside of work?

    I'm not condoning, nor condemning either one, either way. I'm only going by the logic set forth by your side of the argument. Why aren't you?
    That is called a strawman. My side of the argument is that there is no statistical or quantitative evidence that the military would be affected by gays openly serving. The qualitative evidence is at the very least flimsy and at worst simply serves as anecdotal bigotry. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Face it apdst. It's been a huge failure to try and compare being a criminal or a terrorist to being gay. The reason those people are not allowed in is because they have to do something which is illegal in order to be a member. A person can be gay and not have relations. That essentially means they are not guilty of sodomy within the military or outside. And even if they had sex, what then? How is that enough of a reason to kick them out if straights engage in the same activities? The question here is not that gays should be allowed to serve because constitutionally their rights are protected just as yours or mine would be. The question is whether we should discriminate against gays because of the beliefs of some soldiers. The answer is no. Why? Because unit cohesion is nothing more than a bull**** tag line you're using as a way to justify your bigotry. That's it. Just admit it and accept you don't want a guy who sucks cock serving next to you because you're afraid that he won't be able to control himself. Never you mind that he might already be next to you and you may not even know it.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-01-10 at 01:31 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't think you can say liberals were in charge when Bush held the pen. Let's be intellectually honest here, it was 2 years. And as I recall, we were pulled out of one of the worst recessions in American history in those two years. I think the liberals deserve some credit.
    Well unemployment was at 5.5 percent and toe DOW was at and all time high to name a couple of things that you liberal buddies have screwed up./......
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Sure it is. The Federal Government(you know, the people who sign paychecks for the military) can't constitutionally discriminate against anyone because of their sexuality. They can however discriminate against anyone who is a member of a criminal and terrorist organization.



    As being gay does not mean one necessarily engages in any criminal OR terrorist activity, then they are not equally protected. Being a member of such groups is optional. Being gay is not. Seriously, are your parents home? Because I find it necessary that you understand this simply notion about what the Constitution does and doesn't do.



    Sure it is. However sodomy refers to the act of penal penetration into the anus. Not a homosexual act itself. How come we don't see straights being kicked out because they may or may not engage in sodomy outside of work?



    That is called a strawman. My side of the argument is that there is no statistical or quantitative evidence that the military would be affected by gays openly serving. The qualitative evidence is at the very least flimsy and at worst simply serves as anecdotal bigotry. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Face it apdst. It's been a huge failure to try and compare being a criminal or a terrorist to being gay. The reason those people are not allowed in is because they have to do something which is illegal in order to be a member. A person can be gay and not have relations. That essentially means they are not guilty of sodomy within the military or outside. And even if they had sex, what then? How is that enough of a reason to kick them out if straights engage in the same activities? The question here is not that gays should be allowed to serve because constitutionally their rights are protected just as yours or mine would be. The question is whether we should discriminate against gays because of the beliefs of some soldiers. The answer is no. Why? Because unit cohesion is nothing more than a bull**** tag line you're using as a way to justify your bigotry. That's it. Just admit it and accept you don't want a guy who sucks cock serving next to you because you're afraid that he won't be able to control himself. Never you mind that he might already be next to you and you may not even know it.
    Obviously, because you've never spent a single day in the military. In my time, I saw more straights prosecuted under Article 124, than gays.

    Your ignorance of how the United States military works shows, everytime you post on the subject.

    Your ignorance of my opinion on gays serving in the military shows, even more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obviously, because you've never spent a single day in the military. In my time, I saw more straights prosecuted under Article 124, than gays.

    Your ignorance of how the United States military works shows, everytime you post on the subject.

    Your ignorance of my opinion on gays serving in the military shows, even more.
    You mean article 125, and the vast majority of cases of sodomy are not prosecuted even if the command knows of them.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Well unemployment was at 5.5 percent and toe DOW was at and all time high to name a couple of things that you liberal buddies have screwed up./......
    Actually if you want to talk about unemployement, most of the jobs that have been lost were lost before Obama had the chance to change even one policy.

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Actually if you want to talk about unemployement, most of the jobs that have been lost were lost before Obama had the chance to change even one policy.
    THey have been losing jobs since the dems took over 8n 2006...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Poll: Most US troops OK with gays in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You mean article 125, and the vast majority of cases of sodomy are not prosecuted even if the command knows of them.
    I've seen several prosecuted. All of them were straight soldiers; males with females.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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