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Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

MKULTRABOY

MKULTRABOY

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Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law : NPR

"They talk [about] how positive this was going to be for the community," Nichols said, "the amount of money that we would realize from each prisoner on a daily rate."
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Wow...

According to Corrections Corporation of America reports reviewed by NPR, executives believe immigrant detention is their next big market. Last year, they wrote that they expect to bring in "a significant portion of our revenues" from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency that detains illegal immigrants.

In the conference room, the group decided they would turn the immigration idea into a model bill. They discussed and debated language. Then, they voted on it.

"There were no 'no' votes," Pearce said. "I never had one person speak up in objection to this model legislation."

Four months later, that model legislation became, almost word for word, Arizona's immigration law.
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: Dusts off hands:

Guess thats that.
 
One thing I didn't like about the NPR article is:
"This is Wayne," he said. "I can only believe the opportunities at the federal level are going to continue apace as a result of what's happening. Those people coming across the border and getting caught are going to have to be detained and that for me, at least I think, there's going to be enhanced opportunities for what we do."

Opportunities that prison companies helped create."

NPR fails to recognize that is the illegals that create the opportunity. No illegal crossing, no need for more jail space. The prison company may just accomidate the demand.

As far as lobby finances, maybe NPR should look who is funding canidates that oppose the AZ immigration law.
 
mike2810 said:
NPR fails to recognize that is the illegals that create the opportunity. No illegal crossing, no need for more jail space. The prison company may just accomidate the demand.
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I think we should realize its the demand for cheap labor that incentivizes mexicans to cross. :shrug:
It's just morally sick that prison companies wrote a bill for their profit which was accepted and marketed to the people as a solution to illegal immigration. The core of the law was not to solve illegal immigration but jail people, in other words, an incentive to keep illegals coming in for the purposes of being jailed in the US.

Capitalism at its finest.
 
SE102 said:
I think we should realize its the demand for cheap labor that incentivizes mexicans to cross. :shrug:
It's just morally sick that prison companies wrote a bill for their profit which was accepted and marketed to the people as a solution to illegal immigration. The core of the law was not to solve illegal immigration but jail people, in other words, an incentive to keep illegals coming in for the purposes of being jailed in the US.

Capitalism at its finest.
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I have to disagree. The law was written so as to allow local LE to better assist in the illegal problem. As far as cheap labor, Az passed a law 2 years ago targetting employers of illegals. What does Obama do, take AZ to court on that law also. It was a law that then Janet N (home land security) was governor. Ive got to ask, are not the majority of our laws if broken can result in jail time?
 
mike2810 said:
I have to disagree. The law was written so as to allow local LE to better assist in the illegal problem. As far as cheap labor, Az passed a law 2 years ago targetting employers of illegals. What does Obama do, take AZ to court on that law also. It was a law that then Janet N (home land security) was governor. Ive got to ask, are not the majority of our laws if broken can result in jail time?
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No, it was to allow the Law Enforcement to herd illegals like cattle to be jailed for maximum time for the profit of other men. Incredible denial on your part, did you read the article? It was not to help the illegal problem, it was to create profit.

As far as cheap labor, Az passed a law 2 years ago targetting employers of illegals.
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That doesn't address the fact that it is the demand for cheap labor that incentivizes their crossing. Making it illegal wont change the fact that a demand exists for it.

I've got to ask, are not the majority of our laws if broken can result in jail time?
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Sure. Since when was incarceration 'smart' for most criminals. Half the people in jail are nonviolent minor drug offenders.
 
SE102.
Did you consider the source of the article? I have lived in the southwest (az/nm) for much of my working life. You can spin what 1070 is anyway you like. It doesn't make it true. Many of us in AZ don't won't illegals, We will welcome legals. Do we need reform, yes. But to allow the numbers that cross our border each day for whatever reason has to stop.

Show me where all (heck ever the majority) of illegals are hired? So, while AZ law is going through the courts, why isn't the Feds upholding federal immigration law?

How is targeting employers who hire illegals not addressing the issue? Fine and throw enough employers in jail and they will quit hiring illegals. It is something Obama wants but takes Az to court anyway.

IMO, you have no understanding of the illegal issue Arizona is facing and you have bought into the liberal spin done by NPR.
 
mike2810 said:
SE102.
Did you consider the source of the article? I have lived in the southwest (az/nm) for much of my working life. You can spin what 1070 is anyway you like. It doesn't make it true. Many of us in AZ don't won't illegals, We will welcome legals. Do we need reform, yes. But to allow the numbers that cross our border each day for whatever reason has to stop.

Show me where all (heck ever the majority) of illegals are hired? So, while AZ law is going through the courts, why isn't the Feds upholding federal immigration law?

How is targeting employers who hire illegals not addressing the issue? Fine and throw enough employers in jail and they will quit hiring illegals. It is something Obama wants but takes Az to court anyway.

IMO, you have no understanding of the illegal issue Arizona is facing and you have bought into the liberal spin done by NPR.
Click to expand...

Hey, I totally agree that illegals are a problem in AZ, but I couldn't get my head around something until I saw this post. A big (I would say the biggest) problem illegals create is their drain on the economy; their access to the ER and social services costs money, and they don't pay taxes to cover it. I couldn't understand how jailing them solves this, doesn't that just mean that rather than only cover the costs they look for, we are assuming the entire cost of their existence? At least working illegals generally pay their own rent and buy their own food and other necessities. By jailing them, the taxpayer assumes the burden of the cost of their housing, food, clothing, entertainment, and (the biggie!) medical expenses! This never made any sense to me until reading the original post here, although taxpayers pay heavily for this, there are men in power who will get rich from it, now it makes sense. Please tell me if I'm missing something.
 
mike2810 said:
SE102.
Did you consider the source of the article?
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One of the most respected news sources in America. Except by the far right? How about you analyse the article instead of dismissing the source?

I have lived in the southwest (az/nm) for much of my working life.
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Like that means anything?

You can spin what 1070 is anyway you like. It doesn't make it true.
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So the fact that it was written directly to profit a private prison economy doesn't bother you?

Many of us in AZ don't won't illegals, We will welcome legals. Do we need reform, yes. But to allow the numbers that cross our border each day for whatever reason has to stop.
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Wait you dont want them and you welcome them. Reform is needed, yes. No, they should be free to cross the border in some sort of legal manner that allows them to work where they are wanted/needed.

Show me where all (heck ever the majority) of illegals are hired?
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Umm... if they aren't being hired they wouldn't be here.

So, while AZ law is going through the courts, why isn't the Feds upholding federal immigration law?
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This is a deflection that has nothing to do with this.

How is targeting employers who hire illegals not addressing the issue?
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I never said it wasn't.

Fine and throw enough employers in jail and they will quit hiring illegals. It is something Obama wants but takes Az to court anyway.
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A little draconian for objects of the free market dont you think? The rights hypocrisy is appalling when it comes to dealing with minorites, gays, etc. For which they would gladly use government and enlarge it to remove rights and encarcerate.

IMO, you have no understanding of the illegal issue Arizona is facing and you have bought into the liberal spin done by NPR.
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Thats a huge leap especially for someone who isnt even addressing the issue at hand. The fact that this law is written for the profit of private prisons and not to stop illegals from crossing the border. You think theyre going to cut off their profit source?
 
Also most illegals pay taxes cut out of their incomes, and pay sales taxes as well.

As far as lobby finances, maybe NPR should look who is funding canidates that oppose the AZ immigration law.
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Maybe you should deflect some more. :shrug:

Prisons for profit... :roll:
 
SE102 said:
Also most illegals pay taxes cut out of their incomes, and pay sales taxes as well.



Maybe you should deflect some more. :shrug:

Prisons for profit... :roll:
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Do we have accurate figures as to how many illegals are actual paying income taxes? Certainly, illegals working above the table pay into SS/Medicare, but they can easily claim enough deductions on their W-4 forms so that no Federal WH is taken out of their paychecks. If their states also collect state income tax, those deductions will be the same and no state income tax will be taken out, either.

Illegals working "under the table" pay nothing as far as payroll taxes.

Sales tax also varies markedly from state to state; some have none at all, while some tax everything including food.
 
Dulcinea said:
Do we have accurate figures as to how many illegals are actual paying income taxes? Certainly, illegals working above the table pay into SS/Medicare, but they can easily claim enough deductions on their W-4 forms so that no Federal WH is taken out of their paychecks. If their states also collect state income tax, those deductions will be the same and no state income tax will be taken out, either.

Illegals working "under the table" pay nothing as far as payroll taxes.

Sales tax also varies markedly from state to state; some have none at all, while some tax everything including food.
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True, the number I remember was 70% or so percent paying equivalent taxes as regular americans. I cant find the source it was in the MSM years ago.

t r u t h o u t | Undocumented Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Receive in Benefits

:shrug:

So none of this bothers you guys in the slightest? The bill itself written directly to profit private prison corporations. Dont feel.... duped? No morals challenged.


Nothing just.... deflect?
 
SE102 said:
True, the number I remember was 70% or so percent paying equivalent taxes as regular americans. I cant find the source it was in the MSM years ago.

t r u t h o u t | Undocumented Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Receive in Benefits
:shrug:

So none of this bothers you guys in the slightest? The bill itself written directly to profit private prison corporations. Dont feel.... duped? No morals challenged.


Nothing just.... deflect?
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Thank you for the link. La Raza aside :roll:

How many legal citizens put in more taxes than they receive back? :confused:

I think La Raza's figures might be a tad skewered to make a point that really is not holding any water with me.
 
The report cites the Texas Comptroller's disclosure that, in 2006, undocumented immigrants paid about $424.7 million more in state revenues - including sales tax and school property tax - than they used in state services, including education and health care.
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Y'all know how to analyze a source?
 
rudygetsplenty said:
Hey, I totally agree that illegals are a problem in AZ, but I couldn't get my head around something until I saw this post. A big (I would say the biggest) problem illegals create is their drain on the economy; their access to the ER and social services costs money, and they don't pay taxes to cover it. I couldn't understand how jailing them solves this, doesn't that just mean that rather than only cover the costs they look for, we are assuming the entire cost of their existence? At least working illegals generally pay their own rent and buy their own food and other necessities. By jailing them, the taxpayer assumes the burden of the cost of their housing, food, clothing, entertainment, and (the biggie!) medical expenses! This never made any sense to me until reading the original post here, although taxpayers pay heavily for this, there are men in power who will get rich from it, now it makes sense. Please tell me if I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

If the illegal has done nothing but enter illegally I believe AZ turns them over to ICE. If they are busted for other crimes (id theft, stealing, murder), they are held in anything from county jail (tent city or other), state or federal prisons. Then their immigration status is mute and are handled like any other person committing a crime.
My take on the state privately run prison is they (private jails) would have to cut a deal with the feds to hold the illegals. AZ position is immigration is a federal matter. AZ wants to have more of its local LE assist the feds.

By the way, you do understand that SB1070 does not allow LE to stop and check a persons legal status without having another reason for stopping the person (traffic violation, committing a crime). People reporting crimes or asking for assistance would not be checked.
 
SE102 said:
So none of this bothers you guys in the slightest? The bill itself written directly to profit private prison corporations. Dont feel.... duped? No morals challenged.


Nothing just.... deflect?
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Nope, I have read the law and feel it is a good. I do not buy into the bit that the main reason was to make money for private prisons. Again, the State turns illegals over to the Feds.
 
Kinda makes you wonder if they will be using illegals to build the prisons eh? :roll:
 
SE102 said:
Y'all know how to analyze a source?
Click to expand...


“This is the first time any state has done a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state’s budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services.
“The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received. However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not paid for by the state.”
— Carole Keeton Strayhorn, Texas Comptroller
 
mike2810 said:
Nope, I have read the law and feel it is a good. I do not buy into the bit that the main reason was to make money for private prisons. Again, the State turns illegals over to the Feds.
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Do you know how to analyse a source? I dont really care what you feel If the facts are smacking you right in your face with the testimonies of people that were there and bold faced admissions... you can really believe whatever you want to and its sorry that you're able to vote.
 
Dulcinea said:
“This is the first time any state has done a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state’s budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services.
“The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received. However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not paid for by the state.”
— Carole Keeton Strayhorn, Texas Comptroller
Click to expand...

Ty. Linky?
 
SE102 said:
Do you know how to analyse a source? I dont really care what you feel If the facts are smacking you right in your face with the testimonies of people that were there and bold faced admissions... you can really believe whatever you want to and its sorry that you're able to vote.
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So, if someone disagrees with you they should not have the right to vote? Your rebutal is sad. NPR has quotes saying one thing, others involved in writing the bill say another. Glad to see you only look at one side. It is clear what your views are.
Noticed you had nothing to say when the jail contract is with the feds. That AZ turns over illegals to ICE. I now don't really care about your opinion either.
 
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