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Thread: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    SE102.
    Did you consider the source of the article?
    One of the most respected news sources in America. Except by the far right? How about you analyse the article instead of dismissing the source?

    I have lived in the southwest (az/nm) for much of my working life.
    Like that means anything?

    You can spin what 1070 is anyway you like. It doesn't make it true.
    So the fact that it was written directly to profit a private prison economy doesn't bother you?

    Many of us in AZ don't won't illegals, We will welcome legals. Do we need reform, yes. But to allow the numbers that cross our border each day for whatever reason has to stop.
    Wait you dont want them and you welcome them. Reform is needed, yes. No, they should be free to cross the border in some sort of legal manner that allows them to work where they are wanted/needed.

    Show me where all (heck ever the majority) of illegals are hired?
    Umm... if they aren't being hired they wouldn't be here.

    So, while AZ law is going through the courts, why isn't the Feds upholding federal immigration law?
    This is a deflection that has nothing to do with this.

    How is targeting employers who hire illegals not addressing the issue?
    I never said it wasn't.

    Fine and throw enough employers in jail and they will quit hiring illegals. It is something Obama wants but takes Az to court anyway.
    A little draconian for objects of the free market dont you think? The rights hypocrisy is appalling when it comes to dealing with minorites, gays, etc. For which they would gladly use government and enlarge it to remove rights and encarcerate.

    IMO, you have no understanding of the illegal issue Arizona is facing and you have bought into the liberal spin done by NPR.
    Thats a huge leap especially for someone who isnt even addressing the issue at hand. The fact that this law is written for the profit of private prisons and not to stop illegals from crossing the border. You think theyre going to cut off their profit source?

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Also most illegals pay taxes cut out of their incomes, and pay sales taxes as well.

    As far as lobby finances, maybe NPR should look who is funding canidates that oppose the AZ immigration law.
    Maybe you should deflect some more.

    Prisons for profit...

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Also most illegals pay taxes cut out of their incomes, and pay sales taxes as well.



    Maybe you should deflect some more.

    Prisons for profit...
    Do we have accurate figures as to how many illegals are actual paying income taxes? Certainly, illegals working above the table pay into SS/Medicare, but they can easily claim enough deductions on their W-4 forms so that no Federal WH is taken out of their paychecks. If their states also collect state income tax, those deductions will be the same and no state income tax will be taken out, either.

    Illegals working "under the table" pay nothing as far as payroll taxes.

    Sales tax also varies markedly from state to state; some have none at all, while some tax everything including food.

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcinea View Post
    Do we have accurate figures as to how many illegals are actual paying income taxes? Certainly, illegals working above the table pay into SS/Medicare, but they can easily claim enough deductions on their W-4 forms so that no Federal WH is taken out of their paychecks. If their states also collect state income tax, those deductions will be the same and no state income tax will be taken out, either.

    Illegals working "under the table" pay nothing as far as payroll taxes.

    Sales tax also varies markedly from state to state; some have none at all, while some tax everything including food.
    True, the number I remember was 70% or so percent paying equivalent taxes as regular americans. I cant find the source it was in the MSM years ago.

    t r u t h o u t | Undocumented Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Receive in Benefits



    So none of this bothers you guys in the slightest? The bill itself written directly to profit private prison corporations. Dont feel.... duped? No morals challenged.


    Nothing just.... deflect?

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    True, the number I remember was 70% or so percent paying equivalent taxes as regular americans. I cant find the source it was in the MSM years ago.

    t r u t h o u t | Undocumented Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Receive in Benefits


    So none of this bothers you guys in the slightest? The bill itself written directly to profit private prison corporations. Dont feel.... duped? No morals challenged.


    Nothing just.... deflect?
    Thank you for the link. La Raza aside

    How many legal citizens put in more taxes than they receive back?

    I think La Raza's figures might be a tad skewered to make a point that really is not holding any water with me.

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    The report cites the Texas Comptroller's disclosure that, in 2006, undocumented immigrants paid about $424.7 million more in state revenues - including sales tax and school property tax - than they used in state services, including education and health care.
    Y'all know how to analyze a source?

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by rudygetsplenty View Post
    Hey, I totally agree that illegals are a problem in AZ, but I couldn't get my head around something until I saw this post. A big (I would say the biggest) problem illegals create is their drain on the economy; their access to the ER and social services costs money, and they don't pay taxes to cover it. I couldn't understand how jailing them solves this, doesn't that just mean that rather than only cover the costs they look for, we are assuming the entire cost of their existence? At least working illegals generally pay their own rent and buy their own food and other necessities. By jailing them, the taxpayer assumes the burden of the cost of their housing, food, clothing, entertainment, and (the biggie!) medical expenses! This never made any sense to me until reading the original post here, although taxpayers pay heavily for this, there are men in power who will get rich from it, now it makes sense. Please tell me if I'm missing something.
    If the illegal has done nothing but enter illegally I believe AZ turns them over to ICE. If they are busted for other crimes (id theft, stealing, murder), they are held in anything from county jail (tent city or other), state or federal prisons. Then their immigration status is mute and are handled like any other person committing a crime.
    My take on the state privately run prison is they (private jails) would have to cut a deal with the feds to hold the illegals. AZ position is immigration is a federal matter. AZ wants to have more of its local LE assist the feds.

    By the way, you do understand that SB1070 does not allow LE to stop and check a persons legal status without having another reason for stopping the person (traffic violation, committing a crime). People reporting crimes or asking for assistance would not be checked.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    So none of this bothers you guys in the slightest? The bill itself written directly to profit private prison corporations. Dont feel.... duped? No morals challenged.


    Nothing just.... deflect?
    Nope, I have read the law and feel it is a good. I do not buy into the bit that the main reason was to make money for private prisons. Again, the State turns illegals over to the Feds.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Kinda makes you wonder if they will be using illegals to build the prisons eh?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Y'all know how to analyze a source?

    “This is the first time any state has done a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state’s budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services.
    “The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received. However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not paid for by the state.”
    — Carole Keeton Strayhorn, Texas Comptroller

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