Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910
Results 91 to 96 of 96

Thread: VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.

  1. #91
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,711

    Re: VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.

    Moderator's Warning:
    VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.Grant and Whovian. Next personal attack from either of you and an infraction and thread ban will occur.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #92
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    We might as well forget about these "moderate" Muslims, Ockham. They will not speak up.

    and why should they?
    There's lots of reasons. First, they are being targeted as a religion that harbors extremists who kill tens of thousands of people every year. I don't know the source but I remember hearing 40K so far this year world wide. Second, people who defend muslims constantly compare the # of extremists to the 1.5 billion muslims world wide in order to prove extremists are insignificant. Not to the 40K (or whatever number) who were killed... Third, it's the right thing to do to denounce and expose these killers who give Islam not only a bad name, but kill in their religions name. If Muslims get so mad about a cartoon, I would think they'd be besides themselves with rage over the 40K deaths --- but its the direct opposite. I mean I can go on... but asking why should they? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    They can see that most of those people in the democracies will not speak up either. Anyone who dares criticize Islamic extremists is considered a bigot, arrested, has their lives threatened, need 24 hour portction, and so on. If people accustomed to free speech in the democracies can't speak up, why should "moderate" Muslims?
    Then that tells me that this isn't just 0.0001% and that by OMISSION, Muslim are content to allow extremists to murder and kill innocent people. If what you say is true, then that's guilt by complacency in my view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact their lives would be at even greater risk because they are exposed to the extremists in their midst. The cowardice being displayed throughout the democracies would give any rational person, or moderate Muslim, pause..
    I'm sorry to keep using these numbers but they're convenient ... so out of 1,000,000 Muslims --- 0.0001% is 10 extremists. The cowardice or fear - whichever is misplaced. Take 1% of the 1,000,000 Muslims which is 1,000 and go after the 10 extremists with the help of authorities - hunt them down, kill or capture them and identify that such behavior is not acceptable is Islam any longer. Sure it will take decades, but it's required. Sitting back and doing nothing when you know the terrorists are down the street making bombs is just as bad as helping them carry out their plans. I don't get it - maybe it's cultural or maybe ... just maybe we have it wrong. Maybe the complacency isn't out of fear, maybe it's deliberate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    We are asking moderate Muslims to do the job we should be doing, which is to stand up to these bullies and continue with our customs of free speech and free media. Until we start denouncing child marriage, the murder of gays and adulterers, the subjugation of women, etc. the decline of the democracies will continue. We deserve whatever we get.
    No, we're asking Muslims to help us do the job we are ALREADY doing. And we are already denouncing those things but those issues are secondary or further down the list. We cannot help those who will not help themselves. If Muslim country's would show they will not stand for these bombings, these murders, the subjugation and fear tactics any longer --- it would be Islam who would benefit in the long run and the West who would benefit in the short term. Lumping in every other issue including Palestine/Israel, and social / cultural issues of the Middle East isn't and shouldn't be the focus. It should first be: Reject, denounce and help identify the extremists and bring Islam into the modern world. Keep the ideals of Islam, keep the traditions and keep the cultures alive but reject the slaughter of innocents by fanatics who have hijacked Islam.

    Until that happens - nothing will change and your kids, and your kids kids will be facing the same issue we are facing now.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #93
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    My dissappointment is with moderate law abiding muslims. I don't think they are willing to take back their religion from the terrorists - so I have to ask why won't they? If the extremists are 0.00001% world wide, what is it that is preventing the moderate followers of Islam to out the extremists. I'm not talking about some lip service denouncement, I'm talking about full blown confession saying, "So and So is living here and he and these other 5 men are planning to bomb this place... ", then the police get them and lock them up. Why isn't that happening and why hasn't it happened since say the 1970's when terrorists really made their appearance on the national stage with plane hijackings?

    Wouldn't that not only serve the purpose of rejecting those who kill in the name of Islam, denouncement and rejection of those extremists views by the one group that could actually carry out the defeat of Al Qaeda and other groups like them. So what's the problem and why hasn't it happened?
    It DOES happen in the parts of the Islamic world where the moderates have the upper hand. Terrorists are NOT tolerated - by either the government or the citizenry - in places like Jordan, Egypt, Oman, Dubai, and (in the last few years) Saudi Arabia. It doesn't happen in places like Yemen, Somalia, Gaza, Afghanistan, and Pakistan because the penalty for saying "so and so is living here" is to have one's head chopped off.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-28-10 at 03:17 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #94
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It DOES happen in the parts of the Islamic world where the moderates have the upper hand. Terrorists are NOT tolerated - by either the government or the citizenry - in places like Jordan, Egypt, Oman, Dubai, and (in the last few years) Saudi Arabia. It doesn't happen in places like Yemen, Somalia, Gaza, Afghanistan, and Pakistan because the penalty for saying "so and so is living here" is to have one's head chopped off.
    That's good to know --- I'd certainly support taking a small percentage of our defense budget and investing it int these area's to help expand those actions in Jordan and Egypt and then export it to Yemen, Somalia, etc... And I think that has to happen in parallel with the continued vigilence and catching those who wish to harm innocent people. Good response - thanks.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #95
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.

    Ockham

    There's lots of reasons. First, they are being targeted as a religion that harbors extremists who kill tens of thousands of people every year.
    Yes, they are spreading terror and th moderates know that. It is the moderates in Iraq who are the targets of Islamic terrorists and that holds true in other areas as well. I've read that the murders of those passengers on 7/7 were deliberately set in a specific area to intimidate Muslims as well as the general British people.
    I don't know the source but I remember hearing 40K so far this year world wide. Second, people who defend muslims constantly compare the # of extremists to the 1.5 billion muslims world wide in order to prove extremists are insignificant. Not to the 40K (or whatever number) who were killed... Third, it's the right thing to do to denounce and expose these killers who give Islam not only a bad name, but kill in their religions name. If Muslims get so mad about a cartoon, I would think they'd be besides themselves with rage over the 40K deaths --- but its the direct opposite. I mean I can go on... but asking why should they? Really?
    Sure. You'll see how an earlier poster used that figure to downplay the number of deaths caused by Muslims. He should have actually used the number of Muslims in a particular country who committed or attempted terrorist acts rather than the world population. But that's the way they want to present their arguments, though it's not clear why.

    Then that tells me that this isn't just 0.0001% and that by OMISSION, Muslim are content to allow extremists to murder and kill innocent people. If what you say is true, then that's guilt by complacency in my view.
    But they are no more complacent than those living in the democracies. Here's a column that covers that rather well. SteynOnline - STOUT-HEARTED MEN?
    I'm sorry to keep using these numbers but they're convenient ... so out of 1,000,000 Muslims --- 0.0001% is 10 extremists. The cowardice or fear - whichever is misplaced. Take 1% of the 1,000,000 Muslims which is 1,000 and go after the 10 extremists with the help of authorities - hunt them down, kill or capture them and identify that such behavior is not acceptable is Islam any longer. Sure it will take decades, but it's required. Sitting back and doing nothing when you know the terrorists are down the street making bombs is just as bad as helping them carry out their plans. I don't get it - maybe it's cultural or maybe ... just maybe we have it wrong. Maybe the complacency isn't out of fear, maybe it's deliberate.
    I think, after all this time waiting for these 'moderates' to speak out that the odds are we have it wrong. In fact we have gone so far as to ignore the words of the Islamic religious and political leaders themselves, who have declared war on the west. Osama famously said that people will follow the stronger horse and, if all the hand wringing we see on here is any indication, that is not us.

    No, we're asking Muslims to help us do the job we are ALREADY doing.
    Our military is doing one job overseas while much of our media, courts and politicians, are doing quite another. It is a battle the military can win but this is not altogether a military war. It is cultural as well.

    And we are already denouncing those things but those issues are secondary or further down the list. We cannot help those who will not help themselves. If Muslim country's would show they will not stand for these bombings, these murders, the subjugation and fear tactics any longer --- it would be Islam who would benefit in the long run and the West who would benefit in the short term.
    But then you would be talking of a watered down kind of Islam, and not the kind the Islamic leaders are preferring, and fighting for.

    Lumping in every other issue including Palestine/Israel, and social / cultural issues of the Middle East isn't and shouldn't be the focus. It should first be: Reject, denounce and help identify the extremists and bring Islam into the modern world. Keep the ideals of Islam, keep the traditions and keep the cultures alive but reject the slaughter of innocents by fanatics who have hijacked Islam.
    That's right, but the West is not setting the agenda. We're too fearful of negative response, both from the political left and from the Islamists as well.

    Until that happens - nothing will change and your kids, and your kids kids will be facing the same issue we are facing now.
    Exactly. We have to defend the democratic freedoms and principles we have fought for over the centuries and I'm not sure we have the stomach for it, at least not on the home front.

  6. #96
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: VA. Man Arrested For Plotting DC Attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It DOES happen in the parts of the Islamic world where the moderates have the upper hand. Terrorists are NOT tolerated - by either the government or the citizenry - in places like Jordan, Egypt, Oman, Dubai, and (in the last few years) Saudi Arabia. It doesn't happen in places like Yemen, Somalia, Gaza, Afghanistan, and Pakistan because the penalty for saying "so and so is living here" is to have one's head chopped off.
    Good points.

    But what about Iran and Syria?

    Saudi Arabia also has many propaganda schools promoting violent Islam and hatred of the West, even though they might not directly be involved in actual terrorism itself. That is a problem that should be confronted.

Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •