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Thread: States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote

  1. #71
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    Re: States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Are you claiming minorities in the United States do not vote primarily for Democrats? And what a silly statement - viewing this from a purely political view, of COURSE politicans and local/state government care what political affiliations they have.
    I really don't care who they primarily vote for. From a practical standpoint, legal residents are just as much a part of their communities as US citizens, so it makes sense to let them vote in local elections. I don't give a damn whether that means the community is more likely to elect a Democrat or Republican to be the assistant county dogcatcher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham
    Yes I do actually. You see the town council including the treasurer in my neck of the woods has the ability to do a lot of things that directly affect me, my home, my family. For example, I live in a rural area where "open farmland" has been in preservation status for 12 years now. Democrats who are running for town council and treasurer I might add, want to remove the township plan and bring in industry and allow developers to build up the area. Most of the citizens where I live do not want this and have voted Republican to preserve the open space as our little township is an island of green surrounded by full on development and we're willing to pay higher taxes to keep it open space. Yes absolutely there's a difference on how they handle the job and if you don't know that, you obviously aren't involved in your local government nor are you involved in local issues --- THOSE local issues affect people just as much as any big government healthcare travesty passed nationally by Congress.
    Well I don't know anything about your community, but that's pretty unusual if you have lots of controversial local issues that fall so neatly into a partisan divide. Most local elections boil down to competence. If there's an incumbent and they've done a decent job, people usually vote to reelect them regardless of partisan affiliation. If there's no incumbent, they'll vote for whoever they think is more competent. In my experience it's unusual for candidates for local offices to have significantly different goals...and to the extent that they do, it rarely has anything to do with their partisan ideology.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-27-10 at 10:31 AM.
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  2. #72
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    Re: States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I really don't care who they primarily vote for.
    While you may not the RNC and DNC do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    From a practical standpoint, legal residents are just as much a part of their communities as US citizens, so it makes sense to let them vote in local elections.
    No it does not make sense at all. While these are state by state issues, if legal residents want to vote, they need to become citizens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't give a damn whether that means the community is more likely to elect a Democrat or Republican to be the assistant county dogcatcher.
    Ok. And what you do or do not give a damn about isn't the same as what political leaderships in local communities give a damn about. Therefore what you give a damn about is irrelevant to the political machines in those localities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well I don't know anything about your community, but that's pretty unusual if you have lots of controversial local issues that fall so neatly into a partisan divide. Most local elections boil down to competence.
    I really can't comment about other local elections. I know the surrounding towns have just as many issues though different. For example one has a big problem because they 6% of a votership voted in a special election which approved 56 million dollars and a tax hike for school improvements, and now that town is pissed off. The other neighboring town has approved tons of new construction and home development and now are increasing taxes due to the increases in schools, transportation, police and fire needs, as well as public water and sewer. They didn't realize apparently all those things were needed or their decisions would have such ramifications. So just using my anecdotal knowledge, it does seem like there are more issues than just competence in my general area of the country. Whether that's exceptional compared the the rest of the country I really cannot comment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If there's an incumbent and they've done a decent job, people usually vote to reelect them regardless of partisan affiliation.
    That may be a rule of thumb but again, it's not my experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If there's no incumbent, they'll vote for whoever they think is more competent. In my experience it's unusual for candidates for local offices to have significantly different goals...and to the extent that they do, it rarely has anything to do with their partisan ideology.
    That's again a general rule of thumb. It doesn't always fit. And at a state level, you bet these political groups care if they're Democrats or Republicans. Local races run on zero money so unless you live in those areas and are involved in the politics of your locality - you really don't know what's going on.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #73
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    Re: States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote

    School Board? Yes, legal residents pay taxes and utilize public schools. I see no reason why they cannot have the right to vote for school board members.

    Beyond that (i.e. city council, mayor) I'm a bit less likely to agree that legal residents should have the right to vote but I wouldn't get all up in arms about it.

    Once it gets up to the county level and beyond, I am adamently against allowing non-citizens the right to vote.

  4. #74
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    Re: States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't think that anyone is suggesting they have an inherent RIGHT to vote. However, communities can allow them to do so, irrespective of that. Since they live there as much as anyone else, I don't see what's wrong with that.
    That same argument can be made for illegals or for even city, state and federal elections. They live there just as much as anyone else and as many of you pro-illegals pointed out illegals pay taxes too.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #75
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    Re: States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Taboon View Post
    School Board? Yes, legal residents pay taxes and utilize public schools. I see no reason why they cannot have the right to vote for school board members.
    The same argument be made for voting for other offices or even to allow illegals the right to vote.


    Beyond that (i.e. city council, mayor) I'm a bit less likely to agree that legal residents should have the right to vote but I wouldn't get all up in arms about it.
    This is how incrementation works. Start off with one thing and work your way up to ease people into accepting something that they world normally oppose.

    Once it gets up to the county level and beyond, I am adamently against allowing non-citizens the right to vote.
    Some how I doubt that. You are willing to set a precedent by allowing school board elections and even all the way to city elections but somehow you expect us to believe that it would stop at anything a county or above elections?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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