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Thread: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

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    U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/1...s-release.html

    Americans turned a blind eye to hundreds of reports of abuse, torture and murder by Iraqi police and soldiers, according to reports in nearly 392,000 documents related to the Iraq war and released Friday by WikiLeaks.

    The documents say the detainees were whipped, punched, kicked or subjected to electric shocks. Six reports end with a detainee's apparent death.

    In one case, Americans suspected Iraqi army officers of cutting off a detainee's fingers and burning him with acid, the New York Times reported. Two other cases produced accounts of the executions of bound detainees.

    Several media organizations, including the Times, Le Monde, Der Spiegel and The Guardian, were granted early access to the files.

    The Times said the reports indicate that while some abuse cases were investigated by the Americans, most were ignored. The reports released by WikiLeaks and dubbed "The Iraq War Logs," cover the period from Jan. 1, 2004, to Dec. 31, 2009. WikiLeaks said the files detail more than 109,000 deaths in Iraq, including 66,081 civilians. The reports also document the deaths of almost 24,000 people labelled as insurgents, more than 15,000 Iraqi government troops and almost 3,800 coalition forces.

    U.S. Secretary of States Hillary Clinton slammed the release of the files.

    "We should condemn in the most clear terms the disclosure of any classified information by individuals and organizations which puts the lives of United States and partner service members and civilians at risk," she said in Washington, D.C.
    Nice failed attempt at a smoke screen Hilary. I don't care about your feigned outrage over the release of documents which shed light on the lies and distortions of this war. I want to know how you plan to address the blatant tortures that we all know took place but which are now CONFIRMED. Thanks!

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    I'll ask you here, too -- assuming that all of these documents are true and in complete context (which is highly doubtful) . . . where were the "lies"?
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    The Times said the reports indicate that while some abuse cases were investigated by the Americans, most were ignored.
    Given than we didn't have authority over Iraq for much of the documented period, what exactly does this paper think we should have done? If this mistreatment took place in a prison that was run by Iraqis in a province under Iraqi control, how should the US have prevented it from taking place?

    Also, I really don't understand what you think the bolded is proving. "In one case, Americans suspected Iraqi army officers of cutting off a detainee's fingers and burning him with acid." So? We suspected that some Iraqi did something bad. We could not prove it, nor did we have authority over him. Not sure how this is alarming.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 10-23-10 at 04:24 AM.
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Apparently, we should have gone public with all of it. You know, out a fragile government that we're trying to stabilize because they, after thousands of years of doing things their own way, don't manage to get all of their people to behave according to the highest standards of Western culture right away. Scold and embarrass them in front of the world.
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Frankly I don't give damn if it's all true there are ways to get changes made that do not put further lives in jeopardy so some Democracy hating bastards can make a show out of putting lives at risk.

    I want the scum bag arrested brought here and held pending charges of accomplice to murder if one person dies as the result of this irresponsible act of terrorism and face the death penalty if found guilty.

    This is not free speech because he's not an American and not on our soil, he's acting as an agent of and for our enemies. Screw him and anyone who defends his actions against us.

    AS I said there are ways to make a point without killing more people either Iraqis or our young people over there following orders.

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Given than we didn't have authority over Iraq for much of the documented period, what exactly does this paper think we should have done? If this mistreatment took place in a prison that was run by Iraqis in a province under Iraqi control, how should the US have prevented it from taking place?

    Also, I really don't understand what you think the bolded is proving. "In one case, Americans suspected Iraqi army officers of cutting off a detainee's fingers and burning him with acid." So? We suspected that some Iraqi did something bad. We could not prove it, nor did we have authority over him. Not sure how this is alarming.
    The problem is that your goverment have spend hundreds of billions of dollars on the Iraq war. A war that also have cost over hundred thousand people their lifes. Their one of main selling point was helping the Iraq people and giving them democracy. The torture crimes of Saddams regim was often spoke about as a reason for the war. Then you could atleast expect that USA had some plan to handle the risk of torture still being a continued practice after the fall after the regime. That of course it can be hard to stop it all, considering the circumstances. But USA could still have done alot more to prevent torture amongst the Iraqies their trained and entrusted the roll as police and security forces. That it's very important to consider that it was USA that had the power of the country during most of this time. Also torture and brutality amongst the Iraqie security forces was a very god method for increasing the strength of insurgents and decreasing the support for the Iraqie goverment. That torture crimes should not only be a puff piece to use to start a war you want and then to be ignored.

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    The problem is that your goverment have spend hundreds of billions of dollars on the Iraq war. A war that also have cost over hundred thousand people their lifes. Their one of main selling point was helping the Iraq people and giving them democracy. The torture crimes of Saddams regim was often spoke about as a reason for the war. Then you could atleast expect that USA had some plan to handle the risk of torture still being a continued practice after the fall after the regime. That of course it can be hard to stop it all, considering the circumstances. But USA could still have done alot more to prevent torture amongst the Iraqies their trained and entrusted the roll as police and security forces. That it's very important to consider that it was USA that had the power of the country during most of this time. Also torture and brutality amongst the Iraqie security forces was a very god method for increasing the strength of insurgents and decreasing the support for the Iraqie goverment. That torture crimes should not only be a puff piece to use to start a war you want and then to be ignored.
    Do you have a measure of the scope of torture and abuse now that can be compared to the period under saddam?
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    The problem is that your goverment have spend hundreds of billions of dollars on the Iraq war. A war that also have cost over hundred thousand people their lifes. Their one of main selling point was helping the Iraq people and giving them democracy. The torture crimes of Saddams regim was often spoke about as a reason for the war. Then you could atleast expect that USA had some plan to handle the risk of torture still being a continued practice after the fall after the regime. That of course it can be hard to stop it all, considering the circumstances. But USA could still have done alot more to prevent torture amongst the Iraqies their trained and entrusted the roll as police and security forces. That it's very important to consider that it was USA that had the power of the country during most of this time. Also torture and brutality amongst the Iraqie security forces was a very god method for increasing the strength of insurgents and decreasing the support for the Iraqie goverment. That torture crimes should not only be a puff piece to use to start a war you want and then to be ignored.
    How many Germans were killed During WW2, by Allied Forces? I bet Germany is glad as hell that we removed Hitler and the Nazis. Wouldn't you agree?
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    We're in a war for gods sake!

    Why should we have to live up to our creeds when we're in a "war"?

    I mean circumventing the Geneva convention by proclaiming prisoners "enemy combatants" Brilliant! Absolutely Brilliant! I feel better knowing that quite possibly innocent people are being tortured to keep me safe. Helps me sleep at night.

    But why should any of you care? It's happening in a 3rd world country off somewhere else, why should you care? You just don't want to get blown up...

    But wait! There's more! FBI and CIA abuses of the patriot act, illegal wiretappings, illegal search and seizures of Americans... it's all just REALLY FUNNY! We all need to just lighten up, we are in a war after all right?

    I mean literally, if you're even suspected of Terrorism, you can be locked up without trial or a phone call or so much as legal counsel of any kind.

    The United States government is directly responsible for the torture of innocent people.

    Granted many people who are actually terrorists have met a rightful fate, but to know even one innocent person may have been brutally tortured, or killed... or if it was a woman suspect worse. How could you tell me that's right?

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Do you have a measure of the scope of torture and abuse now that can be compared to the period under saddam?
    Well hopefully the war that have cost billons of dollar and many people their lifes have made things better for the Iraqies. But if you spend so much money and risk so many people lifes you could try harder to life up to the goals of the war. A clear goal of this war was to create democracy and stop torture of the Iraqies. Atleast you got that idea then you listen to Bush and other people promoting the war. Then you could do a lot more to upheld that goal after you taking control over the country. Ecpecially sens it was USA that was in direct controle of Iraq during most of that time. Also it was USA that picked and trained many of the new Iraqie security forces.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How many Germans were killed During WW2, by Allied Forces? I bet Germany is glad as hell that we removed Hitler and the Nazis. Wouldn't you agree?
    Well their are a extrem diffrences between WW2 and the Iraq war. First of all obvius the holocaust. Also that the war was between countries with relative the same military strength. USA had also been atack and even before that Germany had launched an aggresive atack against it neigbors so it was no time to wait.

    Iraq war is totally diffrent. USA have the most powerfulle military in the world. While Iraqies had not have the opportunity because of sanctions to rebuild their army. A army that easily got cruched by USA and their allies in the Gulf war. Also it was no urgency Iraq had no possible to atack their neighbors or do something other folish without easily getting cruched by USA. That at the same time it was a real military and political need to focuse on Aganisthan. Even if USA still would have risk destabilsing the wareffort in Aganisthan against The Taliban and Al Queda by pooling the resources to a new war in Iraq instead of Aganisthan, they could atleast plan it better, because they had the time to do that. That if you invade another country you have a responsiblity for law and order in that country. You should have some plan how to create stability and transition to peace. Finally yes the war hopefully made things better for 25 millions Iraqies.

    But the cost have been extremly high, maybe it could have been other cheaper and less risky ways, if you goals was to help people. Like for example that you have countries like Liberia their peace and democracy is created without foreign invasion. But their international peacekeapers and aid is needed to rebuild, stabilize the country and make democracy work. That yes maybe some people think it's not a sexy as war but it's very mucj cheaper and safer.

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