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Thread: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

  1. #101
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Seriously, some questioned the legality of those planes, but with no possibility of hititng those planes, it can't be used as a rationale for war.



    Please link to evidence of "no possibility of hitting those planes".
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Seriously, some questioned the legality of those planes, but with no possibility of hititng those planes, it can't be used as a rationale for war.

    Then sir, you clearly do not understand Casus belli. Firing on another countries planes is an act of war, and under self defense rules we had every justification to put an end to it. Now, although that is not the only thing that violated the UN mandates for Iraq, and they were numerous. It is a justification. If you are trying to sit here and say that a plane has to be hit, or American's or their allies have to die in order for it to be an act of war, then you are woefully misinformed.

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Please link to evidence of "no possibility of hitting those planes".
    Do you think none ever got hit because they didn't want to hit them?


    But despite some 250,000 sorties and a bounty on the pilots' heads — Saddam has offered $14,000 to anyone who bags an American plane — not a single one has been shot down.

    What explains this remarkable record? Part of the answer is that U.S. aircraft generally fly above 20,000 ft., beyond the reach of Iraqi guns. At the same time, electronic-warfare planes jam the guidance systems of any Iraqi missiles threatening U.S. planes. The pilots believe that only a "golden BB"--a lucky shot — can force them down inside Iraq. They say the Iraqis are generally firing blindly, scared to turn on anything that emits radiation and might trigger a U.S. missile strike.

    Read more: The Forgotten War - TIME

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then sir, you clearly do not understand Casus belli. Firing on another countries planes is an act of war, and under self defense rules we had every justification to put an end to it. Now, although that is not the only thing that violated the UN mandates for Iraq, and they were numerous. It is a justification. If you are trying to sit here and say that a plane has to be hit, or American's or their allies have to die in order for it to be an act of war, then you are woefully misinformed.

    j-mac
    Oh, I do. And no, it doesn't. Only the UN can enforce a UN mandate. We can walk away if we don't like it, but the UN mandate belongs to the UN and not the US. And we were not remotely scared of the Iraqi firings, equal to pissing in the wind.

    Like I keep saying, when someone wants an excuse, someone can find one.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you think none ever got hit because they didn't want to hit them?


    But despite some 250,000 sorties and a bounty on the pilots' heads — Saddam has offered $14,000 to anyone who bags an American plane — not a single one has been shot down.

    What explains this remarkable record? Part of the answer is that U.S. aircraft generally fly above 20,000 ft., beyond the reach of Iraqi guns. At the same time, electronic-warfare planes jam the guidance systems of any Iraqi missiles threatening U.S. planes. The pilots believe that only a "golden BB"--a lucky shot — can force them down inside Iraq. They say the Iraqis are generally firing blindly, scared to turn on anything that emits radiation and might trigger a U.S. missile strike.

    Read more: The Forgotten War - TIME


    wait before you bloviated some rumor mongering about bush telling us to fly low? which is it boo?
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    wait before you bloviated some rumor mongering about bush telling us to fly low? which is it boo?
    What? I had fun with a rumor that I clearly made it as such. Humor. If it were an actual argument I wouldn't have pointed ut it was a rumor. I worry about you rev. I really, really do.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What? I had fun with a rumor that I clearly made it as such. Humor. If it were an actual argument I wouldn't have pointed ut it was a rumor. I worry about you rev. I really, really do.


    So wait now, you are claiming it's rumor? Please boo no one is buying it.
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So wait now, you are claiming it's rumor? Please boo no one is buying it.
    Post 76:

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo
    Yeah, he couldn't hit any and that scared us to death. There was even rummor that Bush wanted us to fly low and get hit so he'd have a excuse (bay of Token anyone?). But that was just a rumor as far as I know.

    Again J, anyone who wants to suspend disbleif and accept any reasonat all, no matter how weak. Saddam was contained and unable to hit us at all.
    The argument: Yeah, he couldn't hit any

    Humor: There was even rumor that Bush wanted us to fly low and get hit so he'd have a excuse (bay of Token anyone?). But that was just a rumor as far as I know.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    According to the Senate Intelligence Committee report: ‘The CIA produced 78 reports, from multiple sources, documenting instances on which the Iraqi regime either trained operatives for attacks or dispatched them, to carry out attacks…Iraq continued to participate in terrorist attacks throughout the 1990s…From 1996 to 2003, the [Iraqi Intelligence Service] focused its terrorist activities on western interests, particularly against the US and Israel…throughout 2002, the [Iraqi Intelligence Service] was becoming increasingly aggressive in planning attacks against US interests…. Twelve reports received from sources that the CIA described as having varying reliability cited Iraq or Iraqi national involvement in al Qaeda’s CBW efforts… In March 1998, after bin Laden’s public fatwa against the United States, two al Qaeda members reportedly went to Iraq to meet with Iraq intelligence. In July, an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to met first with the Taliban and then with bin Laden’.

    A Pentagon memo to the Senate Intelligence Committee revealed: ‘Bin Laden was receiving training on bomb-making from the IIS’s [Iraqi Intelligence Service’s] principal technical expert on making sophisticated explosives, Brigadier Salim al Ahmed. Brigadier Salim was observed at bin Laden’s farm in Khartoum in Sep-Oct 1995 and again in July 1996, in the company of the Director of Iraqi Intelligence, Mani-abd-al-Rashid-al-Tikriti…’

    According to Sabah Khodada, a former captain in the Iraq army who worked at the Salman Pak terrorist training camp south of Baghdad, the camp ‘specialised in exporting terrorism to the whole world… they would be trained mainly on assassinations, kidnapping, hijacking of airplanes, hijacking of buses, public buses, hijacking of trains and all other kinds of operations related to terrorism’.

  10. #110
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    Re: U.S. ignored reports of Iraqi abuse: documents

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Oh, I do. And no, it doesn't. Only the UN can enforce a UN mandate. We can walk away if we don't like it, but the UN mandate belongs to the UN and not the US. And we were not remotely scared of the Iraqi firings, equal to pissing in the wind.

    Like I keep saying, when someone wants an excuse, someone can find one.

    What you keep saying is so totally wrong it is laughable. But let's suppose that you are correct that only the UN can enforce their mandates. Then:

    1. Explain how they do that

    2. Please show me where the United States, or any other sovereign country has foregone that sovereignty in order to allow their own planes, or any other interest to be in harms way.

    We don't hand over our ability to defend, and protect our own interests when we join with the UN Joe. Even though that is what liberals would like to see happen.


    j-mac
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