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Thread: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    I am somewhat disgusted by the level of hatred being exhibited by people towards whistleblowers. The notion that "people in authority" should have the sole responsibility to decide what is best for us to know and not know is antithetical to the idea of democracy. Dislike it though you may those "random people" are and always have been our best chance at uncovering abuse by authority.

    The people in authority have every reason to conceal information that is damaging to them. Do not put stock in the fear-mongering rants of government PR propagandists. They **** bricks and spit fire if someone leaks a diplomatic cable.

    While I have not yet looked at these documents as I understand many, if not all, of the Afghan war documents that named people were not actually classified documents and the names may have even been publicly released long before. Certainly I haven't seen a single report suggesting any person has actually been killed or harmed as a result of that leak.
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Anyone want to remind me again why Bush pardoned Scooter Libby?
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Speaking of "stupid analogies," where did I "defend" the war?

    The responsibility for the people that the insurgents killed lies with the insurgents. No righteous indignance on your part will change that.
    A much better analogy would be putting fox with the sheep and expecting them to get along. The Shia hated the Sunni and that was well known except by president Bush. After Desert Storm Bust 41 told the Shia to rise up against Saddam and the Sunni. They did and Bush didn't help them, Saddam mowed them down by the thousands and buried them in mass graves.


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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    A much better analogy would be putting fox with the sheep and expecting them to get along. The Shia hated the Sunni and that was well known except by president Bush. After Desert Storm Bust 41 told the Shia to rise up against Saddam and the Sunni. They did and Bush didn't help them, Saddam mowed them down by the thousands and buried them in mass graves.
    That may be a "better analogy" for an entirely different subject, sure.
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I understand why the U.S. would want to move quickly to cover this up, but that doesn't mean I support it.

    This is about more than revealing strategic information. It is about letting the public know exactly what is going on in the war. The early details seem to indicate that we are all being lied to. If our officials can't be honest about their intentions, then they do not deserve to hold office.
    So you're arguing that the Obama administration is going out of its way to protect the Bush Administration from any criticism for their actions in regards to the war?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I'm sure if someone published Orion's private papers showing things he doesn't particularly want people to know, his reaction would be "well, I guess I have to suck it up."
    If I was hiding the number of people I killed in combat in order to make it seem like I was fighting clean battles; or if I was trying to cover up the fact that I willfully turned a blind eye as my allies were torturing people in facitilies that I helped secure and fund, then yeah, I might be pretty pissed off.

    The truth is a bitch when you're trying to run a tight PR campaign, aint it?

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I am somewhat disgusted by the level of hatred being exhibited by people towards whistleblowers.
    I am somewhat disgusted by the amount of support that is being offered for people who are doing everything in their power to undermine the US.

    The notion that "people in authority" should have the sole responsibility to decide what is best for us to know and not know is antithetical to the idea of democracy.
    And that's not really the same thing as having a system of classifying information, so I don't see the point.


    The people in authority have every reason to conceal information that is damaging to them. Do not put stock in the fear-mongering rants of government PR propagandists. They **** bricks and spit fire if someone leaks a diplomatic cable.
    With good reason.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I am somewhat disgusted by the amount of support that is being offered for people who are doing everything in their power to undermine the US.
    The U.S. undermined itself when it a) withheld information that it knew could turn public opinion against the war; and b) had lax enough security that thousands of documents were able to be leaked in the first place.

    Freedom of the press sucks, doesn't it?

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    If I was hiding the number of people I killed in combat in order to make it seem like I was fighting clean battles; or if I was trying to cover up the fact that I willfully turned a blind eye as my allies were torturing people in facitilies that I helped secure and fund, then yeah, I might be pretty pissed off.

    The truth is a bitch when you're trying to run a tight PR campaign, aint it?
    Where were the claims which were contrary to any of this? In order for "us" to have been "lied to," there would have to be some.

    Can you think of any legitimate political reasons why some of these things might have happened? Can you be sure that these particular documents even represent the entire story? After all, the edited video Breitbart posted concerning Shirley Sherrod sure made her look bad. But it wasn't the whole story. You're acting as if these documents -- which you haven't even seen yet -- represent some sort of whole and complete truth.
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're acting as if these documents -- which you haven't even seen yet -- represent some sort of whole and complete truth.
    I'm not delusional. There is always more to the story, but at least now the story can be told instead of covering up some pretty horrible details of war that we are paying for out of our pockets.

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