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Thread: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    The TRUTH should always be present no matter the impact.

    You may believe it is the government duty to hide and lie to the American people but I cannot advocate that.

    I've read through most of the document detailed on the wiki leaks site and to me it actually shows how all the reported, or lack thereof, for civilian deaths were actually caused by the insurgents through murder, IED, and public warfare. What negative impact of insurgents actively killing civilians have on the reputation of American forces?
    This sounds great, and it is, in theory. The problem is that some things should be kept secret by the government. Having random people decide what is acceptable to release is not a good policy. I was firmly against the war in Iraq, and still feel it was a complete and total mistake. However, releasing secret documents about the war is not acceptable, even if they make my case about the war easier to present.
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I believe advocating the government to have the rightful ability to "disappear" someone for leaking information is reckless, immoral, degenerate and stupid. It's one thing to demand courts of law where everything can be matter of public record. But everyone gets their day in court; that is our principle on the matter. To advocate otherwise is detrimental to the Republic.
    This amounts to espionage and spying. There's no law that protects spies from summary executions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Why is it you Leftist Liberals want to put words in our mouths that we never came close to saying?

    I never said one damn thing close to: I "believe it is the government duty to hide and lie to the American people." what is wrong with so many peoples ability to understand the written word?

    The potential risk to American young peoples lives has got to come before your hatred for Our Form of Government, the Constitution and President Bush.

    I don't know if some of what is about to be released took place under Obama or not but it doesn't matter there are ways to do things that don't have to get people killed more than they already have been. If you put getting even with President Bush over the need to protect Human life you are all beyond redemption of any kind and I feel sorry for you not being able to see that.
    I won't even get into your hypocrisy of putting words in people's mouths.

    I am for transparency of government. I want to know the details of our countries activites so I can make a decision in regard to my stance on the issue. I cannot support or be against deciding if American should continue engaging in war without knowing the details of the results of that war. That is why I want the details leaked.

    Now with that said I can understand the concern with the ignorant having access to this information and screaming things like "Americans are going to die now" or "Americans are killers". The ignorant should not dictate the transparency of our government. Once we do that it's easy for the government to label the entire natino ignorant and not share a damn thing with us. The government should not have a choice of sharing non-tactical analysis of war activities. They should fear sharing the results with the populace because it is WE who will decide if they made bad choices and choose to fire them come next elections.
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    It's fun when so called "anti-big government" individuals advocate for the government to have more control.
    Sine when does, "anti-big government", equate to no government at all?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I won't even get into your hypocrisy of putting words in people's mouths.

    I am for transparency of government. I want to know the details of our countries activites so I can make a decision in regard to my stance on the issue. I cannot support or be against deciding if American should continue engaging in war without knowing the details of the results of that war. That is why I want the details leaked.

    Now with that said I can understand the concern with the ignorant having access to this information and screaming things like "Americans are going to die now" or "Americans are killers". The ignorant should not dictate the transparency of our government. Once we do that it's easy for the government to label the entire natino ignorant and not share a damn thing with us. The government should not have a choice of sharing non-tactical analysis of war activities. They should fear sharing the results with the populace because it is WE who will decide if they made bad choices and choose to fire them come next elections.
    I'm all for a transparent government, too. However, I want information revealed, using common sense and rational judgement, by people with the authority to do so. Wikileaks neither has the proper judgement, nor the authority to make the decision as what needs to be revealed and what doesn't.

    Hundreds of Iraqi informants are named in these documents. No matter where you stand on the war, I think we can all agree that no one has the right to put the lives of those people in the danger, they currently find themselves in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sine when does, "anti-big government", equate to no government at all?
    Who said anything about no government at all? How is advocating for the government to have the ability to assasinate civilians they don't like "small government"?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Who said anything about no government at all? How is advocating for the government to have the ability to assasinate civilians they don't like "small government"?
    It doesn't take a very large governmental apparatus to execute a spy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This sounds great, and it is, in theory. The problem is that some things should be kept secret by the government. Having random people decide what is acceptable to release is not a good policy. I was firmly against the war in Iraq, and still feel it was a complete and total mistake. However, releasing secret documents about the war is not acceptable, even if they make my case about the war easier to present.
    Oh I agree tactical or ongoing initaitives don't need to be shared but an annual non-detailed tactical view of total deaths and general causes of those deaths is not something that I see falling into that category.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It doesn't take a very large governmental apparatus to execute a spy.
    No but actions usually reserved for totalitarian governments isn't something I think our government should participate in.

    So someone wanting to take information that the government doesn't want to share the public because it looks negative is a spy? A spy for who? American voters?
    Last edited by Gibberish; 10-22-10 at 08:41 PM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Oh I agree tactical or ongoing initaitives don't need to be shared but an annual non-detailed tactical view of total deaths and general causes of those deaths is not something that I see falling into that category.
    That's all fine-n-good, but I want someone alot more qualified and possessing the proper authority to make that decision. Wikileaks doesn't fit that description, not did they segregate any of the information that was to be released. They just released it all.

    Friendly lives have been put in danger by this leak. The perpatrators deserve to die for their crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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