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Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on the ta

Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

megaprogman said:
I guess I would agree if elections were suspended or the results ignored. I can't see how anyone could call our current government tyrannical or oppressive.
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I agree. Additionally, we have a bloodless coup everytime we have an election. What weakens the system, is not a tryanical government, but that so few people vote.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Grant said:
How about the American Revolution?
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We'll have none of those pesky facts here young man......!


j-mac
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

j-mac said:
We'll have none of those pesky facts here young man......!


j-mac
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I didn't realise the nations founders and revolutionaries fit into our modern conceptions of right and left. And silly me thinking they were into liberalism.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

SE102 said:
I didn't realise the nations founders and revolutionaries fit into our modern conceptions of right and left. And silly me thinking they were into liberalism.
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If that is truly the case, then why such a hard push to negate their work by progressives?


j-mac
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

j-mac said:
If that is truly the case, then why such a hard push to negate their work by progressives?

j-mac
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You...... don't get something. I was referring to classic liberalism... but hey in political anarchy all sense is lost. :shrug:
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

SE102 said:
You...... don't get something. I was referring to classic liberalism... but hey in political anarchy all sense is lost. :shrug:
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Hey, I am but a blue collar guy. I scratched and struggled for everything I have. So I may not be a product of the benefits of higher education like yourself, so if you would lay out a few things for me so that I can more aptly understand where you are coming from if you would....

1. Do you feel that the founders were more of liberty based motivation, or a progressive one, and why?

2. Is the US constitution a malleable instrument that can be changed at will by side stepping the amendment process, or should we stick closer to the original intent?

3. And lastly, Define political anarchy?

j-mac
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Back to the OP for a sec... ;)

The Dallas Morning news has revoked their endorsement because of this gaffe by Broden. Even Glenn Beck renounced him.

I find it interesting since from the beginning I saw it the way Broden is explaining it now, as a philosophical point instead of a call for folks to take up pitchforks.

He has most certainly experienced his first major 'oops moment' as a neophyte politician. Hopefully he will still get a chance to make more. :)

Still, since I live in the same city with him, I am fairly familiar with him, and I have heard him speak many times. It is with that context that I could quickly understand that his statement was a tip of the hat to the DOI and the founders of our country and not a call to arms. Of course he is trying to get that message out now too, but the fallout from his mistake is still a little too strong.

I sure hope he still wins. His opponent is a proven disaster, and corrupt.

I am voting for him.

Now you guys can go back to willie measuring... don't mind me.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

j-mac said:
Hey, I am but a blue collar guy. I scratched and struggled for everything I have. So I may not be a product of the benefits of higher education like yourself, so if you would lay out a few things for me so that I can more aptly understand where you are coming from if you would....

1. Do you feel that the founders were more of liberty based motivation, or a progressive one, and why?

2. Is the US constitution a malleable instrument that can be changed at will by side stepping the amendment process, or should we stick closer to the original intent?

3. And lastly, Define political anarchy?

j-mac
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I appreciate that, its nice to talk. Sorry if I come off wrong sometimes. I cant see through my ego all the time.

mmk cool

1) Liberty is too wide a term in this case itd be liberty from Britain. They were very progressive minded in my eyes. That doesnt mean I endorse some sort of 'progressive' movement.

2) A little of both really, Id prefer the structure stood, the values of our founders must be debated. (its a massive debate) so I dont know enough to take a side I haven't studied it really.

3) A term I coined my self that all sense is lost in miscommunication referring directly to politics between different groups. Often conservatives and liberals have the same core values but because of the state of politics and the vocab and nature of the discussion we cant agree or really even communicate properly.
 
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Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

SE102 said:
I didn't realise the nations founders and revolutionaries fit into our modern conceptions of right and left. And silly me thinking they were into liberalism.
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Look, reality is not something that factors into what some of these guys believe. If it was "good," it must have come from conservatives. If it was "bad," it must have come from liberals. Even direct proof to the contrary doesn't matter.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

SE102 said:
You...... don't get something. I was referring to classic liberalism... but hey in political anarchy all sense is lost. :shrug:
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If you were referring to 'classic liberalism' then you should say so. But you said 'Right Wing' and of course, in the usage of the term today, they were certainly "Right Wing". It is the Left Wing who is trying to undo what these wise men created, and who will bring down the country in the process.

Calling the US Founding Fathers "Left Wing" would be a very egregious insult to their memory and foresight.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Grant said:
How about the American Revolution?
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The American Revolutionary War was fought and won by revolutionaries (and the French), not reactionaries.

They were men of the Left. Men of the Right would have been called Tories.
 
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Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Mickey Shane said:
The American Revolutionary War was fought and won by revolutionaries (and the French), not reactionaries.

They were men of the Left. Men of the Right would have been called Tories.
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The term "Tories" is not used in the USA anymore so defunct terms cannot apply to your previous statement.

An easier way of putting it would be to ask who is more in favour of the US Constitution today, the Left Wing or the Right Wing?

Who would you pick?

While the Left may try to take credit for any positive historical events, the fact is that their past has been more than a little checkered, just as their present is today.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Grant said:
The term "Tories" is not used in the USA anymore so defunct terms cannot apply to your previous statement.

An easier way of putting it would be to ask who is more in favour of the US Constitution today, the Left Wing or the Right Wing?

Who would you pick?

While the Left may try to take credit for any positive historical events, the fact is that their past has been more than a little checkered, just as their present is today.
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The Right ain't exactly pure as the driven snow either.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Well, the amusing part is just how often people try to take credit for the past events. "Liberals were this_____" "Conservatives were this _____" "Libertarians were this ______."
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Mickey Shane said:
The American Revolutionary War was fought and won by revolutionaries (and the French), not reactionaries.

They were men of the Left. Men of the Right would have been called Tories.
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Not precisely.

In America, in particular, the meaning of political party positions has changed a great deal. Nor does "left" or "right" or "liberal" or "conservative" mean quite the same thing here as it does in Europe, or as it did in 1776-1812.

The philosophy the Founders followed is now referred to as "classical liberalism", and it is widely argued that it has more in common with the modern political philosophy of American Conservatism than with any other.

In America, Liberalism has, quite frankly, morphed into a Social Welfare philosophy, which the "Classical Liberals" would not have supported at all.

Some have tried to tie the Founders' classical-liberalism to the Libertarians, but the Founders were too pragmatic really, and most of them accepted a certain amount of moralism in government.

While modern American Conservatism may not be an ideal fit to the Founders political views either, it is probably closer in reality than any other.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Classical liberalism is a far walk from the land of the modern left wing. I always associate it with minimal government, economic freedom, and a starkly honest view of human nature. It is about as close to in line with my personal political bneliefs as possible. I can only hope that if THIS depression is like the great depression, perhaps it will undo to the definition of "liberalism" what the former did. For the sake of my kids.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

samsmart said:
There's many differences between the issues of why the Founding Fathers revolted and why conservative canddiates are advocating it.
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First, what conservative candidates are advocating it? I'm seeing in this thread a conservative candidate that says you shouldn't simply remove it as a theoritical option of the people at some nebulus point in the future but also clearly and plainly says that's not what we should be trying now. Do you perhaps have quotes of a conservative candidate directly advocating for it?

1) The Founding Fathers revolted because it was the only way they could get representation in government. At that time, the British Parliament was making laws for the colonies without input from the colonies. This is why the cry of the colonies was "No Taxation Without Representation. It was the "Without Representation" that the Founding Fathers had a problem with the British Empire.

Conservatives, however, have ample opportunity at representation in the federal government. It's not Taxation Without Representation when your party is so unpopular that it's candidates don't get elected. That's a different issue entirely, and not that should be resolved with firearms.
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And where is there a conservative candidate advocating the violent overthrow of the government simply because they can't get elected? I would not take the notion of potential revolution off the table as something the American People could do, but it would take something like a President making a power grab to become dictator or severely hamper the democratic process for me to even begin to even legitiamtely THINK of such a thing.

2) The Founding Fathers did not revolt as the first option. The Continental Congress made several attempts at diplomacy with the British Parliament in order to come to a peaceful solution. Indeed, Joseph Galloway put forth a plan in which the American colonies would adopt an American Parliament that would be loyal to the British Crown. The Founding Fathers sought a compromise to ensure there was no need for war. Unfortunately, the British Empire took the actions of the Continental Congress as acts of rebellion itself and refused to compromised.

Conservative candidates, however, are putting forth the option of rebellion as a way to avoid compromise.
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Really? They are? Please provide the links. This candidate in the thread specifically laid out this was not a "first option" but that simply in a theoritical sense he doesn't think any options should be removed from the table. What Conservative Candidate IS advocating this as a first option and specifically to avoid compromise?

You are making a very well reasoned and sound argument, the issue is you're making it against a strawman.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Grant said:
The term "Tories" is not used in the USA anymore so defunct terms cannot apply to your previous statement.

An easier way of putting it would be to ask who is more in favour of the US Constitution today, the Left Wing or the Right Wing?

Who would you pick?

While the Left may try to take credit for any positive historical events, the fact is that their past has been more than a little checkered, just as their present is today.
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Who would be more in favor of living under the British Monarchy today, the left wing or the right wing?
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Without the above quotes, it seems that it's unanimous that the American Revolution was fought by the (classical) Liberals.

Back to the fun...

Anyone know of a revolution that was fought by a conservative right wing? You know, the keepers of the status quo?
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

If Republicans attempt to use violence to impose their politics on the American people, we will defend ourselves and uphold freedom. But they remain welcome to express their views peacefully and participate in our democracy.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Mickey Shane said:
Without the above quotes, it seems that it's unanimous that the American Revolution was fought by the (classical) Liberals.
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Whose thoughts and philosophies are by FAR better-represented among modern American "conservatives" than they are among modern American "liberals."
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

I would just like to add this: Republicans need to understand that Americans will not be intimidated by terrorist threats.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Troubadour said:
I would just like to add this: Republicans need to understand that Americans will not be intimidated by terrorist threats.
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And Democrats need to understand that terrorists won't go away by offering them a bag of weed.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Mickey Shane said:
Without the above quotes, it seems that it's unanimous that the American Revolution was fought by the (classical) Liberals.
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Yeah, right. LOL

I hate to tell you this, those "liberals" you refer to had GUNS and believed in GOD. You'd hate every one of them.

Todays liberals would never have been laughed out of town in those days.
 
Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

Troubadour said:
I would just like to add this: Republicans need to understand that Americans will not be intimidated by terrorist threats.
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I would just like to add this: purple crap that comes from the behind of a baboon is not suitable to use as nutrients.

Since it seems we're making ridiculous statements that have no basis in reality I thought I'd join in.
 
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