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Thread: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on the ta

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    There's many differences between the issues of why the Founding Fathers revolted and why conservative canddiates are advocating it.

    1) The Founding Fathers revolted because it was the only way they could get representation in government. At that time, the British Parliament was making laws for the colonies without input from the colonies. This is why the cry of the colonies was "No Taxation Without Representation. It was the "Without Representation" that the Founding Fathers had a problem with the British Empire.

    Conservatives, however, have ample opportunity at representation in the federal government. It's not Taxation Without Representation when your party is so unpopular that it's candidates don't get elected. That's a different issue entirely, and not that should be resolved with firearms.

    2) The Founding Fathers did not revolt as the first option. The Continental Congress made several attempts at diplomacy with the British Parliament in order to come to a peaceful solution. Indeed, Joseph Galloway put forth a plan in which the American colonies would adopt an American Parliament that would be loyal to the British Crown. The Founding Fathers sought a compromise to ensure there was no need for war. Unfortunately, the British Empire took the actions of the Continental Congress as acts of rebellion itself and refused to compromised.

    Conservative candidates, however, are putting forth the option of rebellion as a way to avoid compromise.
    Oh, I fully understand the differences. Certainly the current political climate does not warrant armed revolt. I was commenting on the fact that most liberals posting here seem to be utterly flabergasted that anyone would even remotely consider an armed revolt against their countries government. I was simply stating... it's happened before, and if it had not... this forum would not now exist.

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Tell them what? That "you" want to over through their government? I doubt they would take to kindly to that.
    As they once overthrew their government?

    Please see my response here... http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1059060291

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    While I agree with you that revolution can be a valid tool of the People, I find it somewhat hypocritical for a conservative candidate to point that out but not advocate giving more powers of direct democracy over the federal government to the People, which could arguably avert the need for revolution. There are also many conservatives who in fact want to take away the gains the People have made increasing direct democracy, one method of which is repealing the 17th Amendment, which again is hypocritical. So I see it as somewhat disengenuous for the conservative gestalt to mention revolution but not such (rather more peaceful) measures of implementing Instant Run-off Voting to better allow third-parties to get elected to offices and implementing federal referrendums so that the People may pass measures that politicians are against, such as reduction for pay.
    A pure, direct democracy is a bad thing. It's mob rule. There has to be some protection in the system from popularism. The founders knew this too. And as for the 17th. I'm not against repealing that. The fact is that the Senate was not supposed to support or represent the People, it was supposed to support and represent the States. That way you had the check from the People via the House and the check from the States via the Senate. Problems arose with State governments being corrupt and not seating senators; but I think those problems could have been addressed directly; instead of going to the popular vote of the Senate. I do not agree with the Senate being popularly elected because they forget their position as representatives of the State and State power.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    A pure, direct democracy is a bad thing. It's mob rule. There has to be some protection in the system from popularism. The founders knew this too. And as for the 17th. I'm not against repealing that. The fact is that the Senate was not supposed to support or represent the People, it was supposed to support and represent the States. That way you had the check from the People via the House and the check from the States via the Senate. Problems arose with State governments being corrupt and not seating senators; but I think those problems could have been addressed directly; instead of going to the popular vote of the Senate. I do not agree with the Senate being popularly elected because they forget their position as representatives of the State and State power.

    That's a good point Ikari. I would however say that if we were to return to that, it be term limited.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's a good point Ikari. I would however say that if we were to return to that, it be term limited.

    j-mac
    good point. The Presidency is limited to 2 terms. Anyone know why Senate and House terms do not follow suit?

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    good point. The Presidency is limited to 2 terms. Anyone know why Senate and House terms do not follow suit?
    We added the term limits to Presidents later. None of the offices were term limited at the beginning.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We added the term limits to Presidents later. None of the offices were term limited at the beginning.
    I know that. I was asking... WHY have we never done it anywhere but the Presidency?

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    You Americans are screwed...

    (D) President.

    (R) Candidate says something about Violent overthrow.

    Conservative = Hero.

    Liberals = crazy.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (R) President

    (D) Candidate says something about President guilty of war cimres

    Conservative = Traitor, crazy, why not throw heretic in there for good measure.

    Liberals = Hero.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    THIS IS A GENERALISED POST! DO NOT TAKE IT LITERALLY!

    PLEASE!

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    You Americans are screwed...

    (D) President.

    (R) Candidate says something about Violent overthrow.

    Conservative = Hero.

    Liberals = crazy.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (R) President

    (D) Candidate says something about President guilty of war cimres

    Conservative = Traitor, crazy, why not throw heretic in there for good measure.

    Liberals = Hero.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    THIS IS A GENERALISED POST! DO NOT TAKE IT LITERALLY!

    PLEASE!
    How are those two analogies even remotely related?

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    How are those two analogies even remotely related?
    Because for SOME! conservatives, it's perfectly okay to talk about sedition against the United States government when the Democrats are in charge.

    But god help a liberal (And god won't, cause we all know Liberals and Democrats are godless, communist, Black Theoligical marxist, terrorist sympathising) for saying anything against a Republican administration... blah blah blah you get the point.

    I'm combatting Hyperbole with Hyperbole.

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