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Thread: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on the ta

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How about the American Revolution?
    The American Revolutionary War was fought and won by revolutionaries (and the French), not reactionaries.

    They were men of the Left. Men of the Right would have been called Tories.
    Last edited by d0gbreath; 10-26-10 at 05:12 PM.

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    The American Revolutionary War was fought and won by revolutionaries (and the French), not reactionaries.

    They were men of the Left. Men of the Right would have been called Tories.
    The term "Tories" is not used in the USA anymore so defunct terms cannot apply to your previous statement.

    An easier way of putting it would be to ask who is more in favour of the US Constitution today, the Left Wing or the Right Wing?

    Who would you pick?

    While the Left may try to take credit for any positive historical events, the fact is that their past has been more than a little checkered, just as their present is today.

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The term "Tories" is not used in the USA anymore so defunct terms cannot apply to your previous statement.

    An easier way of putting it would be to ask who is more in favour of the US Constitution today, the Left Wing or the Right Wing?

    Who would you pick?

    While the Left may try to take credit for any positive historical events, the fact is that their past has been more than a little checkered, just as their present is today.
    The Right ain't exactly pure as the driven snow either.

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Well, the amusing part is just how often people try to take credit for the past events. "Liberals were this_____" "Conservatives were this _____" "Libertarians were this ______."
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    The American Revolutionary War was fought and won by revolutionaries (and the French), not reactionaries.

    They were men of the Left. Men of the Right would have been called Tories.

    Not precisely.

    In America, in particular, the meaning of political party positions has changed a great deal. Nor does "left" or "right" or "liberal" or "conservative" mean quite the same thing here as it does in Europe, or as it did in 1776-1812.

    The philosophy the Founders followed is now referred to as "classical liberalism", and it is widely argued that it has more in common with the modern political philosophy of American Conservatism than with any other.

    In America, Liberalism has, quite frankly, morphed into a Social Welfare philosophy, which the "Classical Liberals" would not have supported at all.

    Some have tried to tie the Founders' classical-liberalism to the Libertarians, but the Founders were too pragmatic really, and most of them accepted a certain amount of moralism in government.

    While modern American Conservatism may not be an ideal fit to the Founders political views either, it is probably closer in reality than any other.

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Classical liberalism is a far walk from the land of the modern left wing. I always associate it with minimal government, economic freedom, and a starkly honest view of human nature. It is about as close to in line with my personal political bneliefs as possible. I can only hope that if THIS depression is like the great depression, perhaps it will undo to the definition of "liberalism" what the former did. For the sake of my kids.

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    There's many differences between the issues of why the Founding Fathers revolted and why conservative canddiates are advocating it.
    First, what conservative candidates are advocating it? I'm seeing in this thread a conservative candidate that says you shouldn't simply remove it as a theoritical option of the people at some nebulus point in the future but also clearly and plainly says that's not what we should be trying now. Do you perhaps have quotes of a conservative candidate directly advocating for it?

    1) The Founding Fathers revolted because it was the only way they could get representation in government. At that time, the British Parliament was making laws for the colonies without input from the colonies. This is why the cry of the colonies was "No Taxation Without Representation. It was the "Without Representation" that the Founding Fathers had a problem with the British Empire.

    Conservatives, however, have ample opportunity at representation in the federal government. It's not Taxation Without Representation when your party is so unpopular that it's candidates don't get elected. That's a different issue entirely, and not that should be resolved with firearms.
    And where is there a conservative candidate advocating the violent overthrow of the government simply because they can't get elected? I would not take the notion of potential revolution off the table as something the American People could do, but it would take something like a President making a power grab to become dictator or severely hamper the democratic process for me to even begin to even legitiamtely THINK of such a thing.

    2) The Founding Fathers did not revolt as the first option. The Continental Congress made several attempts at diplomacy with the British Parliament in order to come to a peaceful solution. Indeed, Joseph Galloway put forth a plan in which the American colonies would adopt an American Parliament that would be loyal to the British Crown. The Founding Fathers sought a compromise to ensure there was no need for war. Unfortunately, the British Empire took the actions of the Continental Congress as acts of rebellion itself and refused to compromised.

    Conservative candidates, however, are putting forth the option of rebellion as a way to avoid compromise.
    Really? They are? Please provide the links. This candidate in the thread specifically laid out this was not a "first option" but that simply in a theoritical sense he doesn't think any options should be removed from the table. What Conservative Candidate IS advocating this as a first option and specifically to avoid compromise?

    You are making a very well reasoned and sound argument, the issue is you're making it against a strawman.

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The term "Tories" is not used in the USA anymore so defunct terms cannot apply to your previous statement.

    An easier way of putting it would be to ask who is more in favour of the US Constitution today, the Left Wing or the Right Wing?

    Who would you pick?

    While the Left may try to take credit for any positive historical events, the fact is that their past has been more than a little checkered, just as their present is today.
    Who would be more in favor of living under the British Monarchy today, the left wing or the right wing?

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    Without the above quotes, it seems that it's unanimous that the American Revolution was fought by the (classical) Liberals.

    Back to the fun...

    Anyone know of a revolution that was fought by a conservative right wing? You know, the keepers of the status quo?

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    Re: Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on th

    If Republicans attempt to use violence to impose their politics on the American people, we will defend ourselves and uphold freedom. But they remain welcome to express their views peacefully and participate in our democracy.

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