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Thread: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

  1. #71
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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    I think this is the end of the line for DADT. Anyone who is waiting for congressional action to make it "permanent"...don't hold your breath.

    First of all, Democrats probably aren't going to have 59 Senate seats in the lame duck Congress. Since Illinois and West Virginia are special elections, the winner of the Senate elections in those states (both currently rated as toss-ups) will be seated IMMEDIATELY. So realistically, the Dems will have between 57 and 59 seats.

    Secondly, Congress can use this as an excuse for inaction. Some politicians may disingenuously argue "Why do we still need to repeal it when the courts just overturned it?" as though they actually agreed with the ruling. Or they'll suggest that we wait for the appeals process to finish before we act...the same stalling technique they've used to wait for the military report.

    Speaking of which, the military report is due out on December 1. Even if the overall report strongly suggests that ending DADT wouldn't cause any problems, anyone who is looking for a reason to vote against repeal will surely be able to find something to support their case somewhere in the third paragraph of the 57th page of Appendix B. They will latch onto anything remotely related to their case as evidence that we need DADT. Surely they'll be able to find something.

    So yeah. It looks like DADT will finally meet its demise in the courts. Anyone looking for a congressional showdown, expect to be disappointed.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-21-10 at 05:11 AM.
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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think this is the end of the line for DADT. Anyone who is waiting for congressional action to make it "permanent"...don't hold your breath.

    First of all, Democrats probably aren't going to have 59 Senate seats in the lame duck Congress. Since Illinois and West Virginia are special elections, the winner of the Senate elections in those states (both currently rated as toss-ups) will be seated IMMEDIATELY. So realistically, the Dems will have between 57 and 59 seats.

    Secondly, Congress can use this as an excuse for inaction. Some politicians may disingenuously argue "Why do we still need to repeal it when the courts just overturned it?" as though they actually agreed with the ruling. Or they'll suggest that we wait for the appeals process to finish before we act...the same stalling technique they've used to wait for the military report.

    Speaking of which, the military report is due out on December 1. Even if the overall report strongly suggests that ending DADT wouldn't cause any problems, anyone who is looking for a reason to vote against repeal will surely be able to find something to support their case somewhere in the third paragraph of the 57th page of Appendix B. They will latch onto anything remotely related to their case as evidence that we need DADT. Surely they'll be able to find something.

    So yeah. It looks like DADT will finally meet its demise in the courts. Anyone looking for a congressional showdown, expect to be disappointed.
    I think there is a fairly good chance that the supreme court will rule the other way, given how far to the right they are right now. So, we may yet see this overturned. Personally, I think Obama should wait until the elections are over and then order the justice department to drop their case. It will cause some controversy, but the people who would be upset about it are likely to not vote for the guy in 2012 anyway, so no political loss there. In fact, it might give his base something to be happy about finally as it would mean he is finally taking a stand on something.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 10-21-10 at 07:12 AM.

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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants


  4. #74
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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, they actually cannot. As usual on this topic, you are dead wrong.

    Military recruiters told they can accept openly gay applicants - CNN.com



    You can of course show where on their "record" it denotes whether they are gay or not, and you can of course show where recruiters are actually asking if recruits are gay. I mean, you would not be making stuff up again.
    It's on DD Form 69.
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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Officers are going to need to know exactly what the DoD's policy on such things as, fraternization, billeting and sexual harrassment and how these issues are to be addressed, when it comes to gay soldiers.

    Gays will have to be counciled on sexual harrassment and fraternization. Currently, the regulations only pertain to male on female/female on male situations.


    I know you're not going to agree and will probably call me a homophobe and a racist, but these are the realities of openly gay soldiers serving in the United States armed forces. Anyone that can't accept this, isn't genuinely interested in gays succeeding in a military career.
    My point is, make the regulations concerning homosexual relations the exact same rules as male on female or female on male relations. Why do you need two years do this?

    And as far as the training and education goes, I'll ask the same thing... why do you need two years to plan, schedule and hold meetings with officers and soldiers and educate them on a new policy?

    I'm sure there are already rules in place to punish harassment (physical, mental, vocal, or otherwise), racism, bigotry, sexual relations within the military, etc... re-write those rules to include homosexuals.
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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    My point is, make the regulations concerning homosexual relations the exact same rules as male on female or female on male relations. Why do you need two years do this?
    The rules are already the same. Sodomy is illegal, per the UCMJ and it is applied to heteros the same way it's applied to homos.

    And as far as the training and education goes, I'll ask the same thing... why do you need two years to plan, schedule and hold meetings with officers and soldiers and educate them on a new policy?
    Because, you know as well as I do, that if the DoD whips something out in a few months, activists will be screaming to high heaven that they weren't given the oppurtunity to review it and give their blessing, thereby idicating some sorta discrimination. Not to mention, we are talking about the government.

    I'm sure there are already rules in place to punish harassment (physical, mental, vocal, or otherwise), racism, bigotry, sexual relations within the military, etc... re-write those rules to include homosexuals.
    There are, but they will need to be redefined. Two male soldiers making physical contact will take on a whole new meaning. Physical contact, while in uniform is already forbidden, however when that contact is between two soldiers of the same sex, it's been overlooked in the past. That can't be the case anymore.
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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Here are some military rules regarding females in the military:

    During basic and AIT, sex is stricly forbidden.

    At duty stations, sex is allowed in garrison but not while out in the field.

    Sex is only allowed as long as it doesn't break the army's fraternization policy.

    The military is very strict on adultery.

    Junior enlisted can have sex with any other junior enlisted as long as neither is married or they are married to each other,

    Junior enlisted can have sex with NCO's only who are in their unit if they are single or if they are married to each other. Sex between junior enlisted and NCO's in the same unit is strictly forbidden.

    Senior NCO's (E-7 and above) may not have sex with junior NCO's (E-4 through E-6) in the same unit.

    Officer may not have sex with any enlisted troops, whether in the same unit or not.

    No, getting a single soldier pregnant is not an offense as long as the sex was consensual, it didn't violate rank rules, and he wasn't married.

    The military does allow single parents in, but all pregnant females have the option of getting out.

    You can get chaptered out for being a single parent and not having a family care plan. That usually ends up happening to a lot of single parents because they end up being a burden on their units for having to get extra time off and get out of stuff because of their kids.

    While pregnant, female troops are pretty much not allowed to do anything; do field exercises, drive military vehicles, do heavy lifting, wear gear, go to rifle ranges, just about everything.

    If they aren't married they have to come to some kind of custody agreement.


    There is no question that accepting woman in combat roles with men meant more women in closer contact with men and has caused problems with discipline and moral. You flunk logic and ignore reality to deny it. If there were no woman in the military the problems wouldn't exist. The only decision to make is whether some greater good comes from having to deal with these problems. And how about the demand? There was not a great demand for women wanting to join the military. Insisting that women be given the same opportunity created the demand. That and college money. Men were capable of handling the military load without women. And the men still carry a much greater burden. The argument for not including women in combat roles had merit. But military readiness became less important and we gave into politics and impractical social equality.

    As for gays, there will be some of the same types of problems but on a much smaller scale. I don't look at the dynamic with gay men in quite the same way as the hetero dynamic. I think we can accomodate gay men in the military better than we have accomodated women. If I had my choice I would accept gay men as part of an all male combat force before I would have accepted women in that role.

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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Actually the "Load" was not being handled as the Draft was done away with. In order not to inconvenience various tiers of the Middle Class and above the Military under orders accomodated itself to Women who were mostly from the Working Class or lower and with the same social issues as the Men .

    There were always problems , but most never got beyond Unit level straightening out.

    Some Gay Men were always there , but most others did not know they were Gay - believe it or not. That particular situation is about to end.

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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The rules are already the same. Sodomy is illegal, per the UCMJ and it is applied to heteros the same way it's applied to homos.
    Except that it's not applied to heterosexuals at all. I don't think I've ever known a military man that didn't commit some form of sodomy during his service.

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    Re: Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Except that it's not applied to heterosexuals at all. I don't think I've ever known a military man that didn't commit some form of sodomy during his service.
    Those zany military guys...
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