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Thread: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajay View Post
    I think it's more disingenuous than that. The evolution in the most basic book shows pictures of familes of primates separating off. The tree? Jesus, it's not about being able to grasp a concept. It's at best, denial.
    Right, but even for people who believe in evolution its a tough concept to grasp. It is really an incredibly vast timeframe we're talking about here. The typical layperson's understanding of evolution is that successive species gradually evolve into one another, but remember they like to think in neat little boxes. So a fish turns into a dinosaur turns into a monkey turns into a man. It is just too much for some people to fathom the billions of gradations that actually occur in that process, it's just beyond the processing power of the human brain to think in numbers that big.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    1. If you take apart an engine and bury it in the ground for a few generations. When the later generation digs it back up and can't find one of the pistons, does that mean the engine never existed?
    2. Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    3. One of the processes of evolution is that subsequent generations of an animal change over time, eventually into another species. This does not mean that the original species does not stick around. In humans, the idea goes that there was a common ancestor of humans, chimps, and other apes, not humans evolving directly from chimps or apes.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Since you insist some one asnwer the questions and make your post look foolish, I guess I can do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Evolution has it's problems as a theory. Absence of that missing link
    What missing link? Are you referring to transitional species, of which there are tons?

    life having to have begun somewhere,
    Evolution deals with how life changes, not how it begins. That is a totally separate topic.

    and if we evolved from apes or monkeys, while are apes and monkeys still around?
    Speciation is what you are talking about, and does not require one species to end and another to being, and in fact, one species can continue on and another species branch off. All that is required is geographic isolation. However, in the case of man, the last common ancestor with apes is Nakalipithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, which is in fact no longer around.
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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Right, but even for people who believe in evolution its a tough concept to grasp. It is really an incredibly vast timeframe we're talking about here. The typical layperson's understanding of evolution is that successive species gradually evolve into one another, but remember they like to think in neat little boxes. So a fish turns into a dinosaur turns into a monkey turns into a man. It is just too much for some people to fathom the billions of gradations that actually occur in that process, it's just beyond the processing power of the human brain to think in numbers that big.
    I understand the complexity. But the most basic parts of the concept are understandable to most everyone.

    I have listened to arguments from evolution deniers. It's like listening to libertatians speak on ideology and philosophy. It makes my head hurt. I regress and get urges to swing from a tree branch, and pick at my rear end as I eat a banana. btw, did you see where 'Boy' from the Tarzan movies passed away the other day?

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajay View Post
    I understand the complexity. But the most basic parts of the concept are understandable to most everyone.
    Oh sure. I'm not defending creationism or anything. Heck, I'm not even saying that you need to be particularly smart to understand evolution. You're right that any average person is capable of understanding it, with a little bit of mental effort. Getting people to put forth that little bit of effort is another story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajay View Post
    btw, did you see where 'Boy' from the Tarzan movies passed away the other day?
    No I hadn't heard that, that's a shame.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Since you insist some one asnwer the questions and make your post look foolish, I guess I can do this.



    What missing link? Are you referring to transitional species, of which there are tons?
    Tons? Hardly when we are talkng about millions of years. Even the evolutionists admit that huge gaps exist in the chain of transitional species. Most do not claim that humans have evolved, just we aren't apes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Evolution deals with how life changes, not how it begins. That is a totally separate topic.
    Evolution has to include a beginning. Something to evolve from to start with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Speciation is what you are talking about, and does not require one species to end and another to being, and in fact, one species can continue on and another species branch off. All that is required is geographic isolation. However, in the case of man, the last common ancestor with apes is Nakalipithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, which is in fact no longer around.
    The question becomes; if we evolved from apes, how did every other transitional species die out but yet they remained?
    From the ashes.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    "Every single person alive, every animal that has ever lived is a transitional fossil." - Brian Sapient

    an interesting debate like the one here: Nightline Face-Off: Does God Exist Part II | planet and epoch

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Evolution has to include a beginning. Something to evolve from to start with.
    Evolution starts with life. Abiogenesis is the topic about how life itself can be created.
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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Tons? Hardly when we are talkng about millions of years. Even the evolutionists admit that huge gaps exist in the chain of transitional species. Most do not claim that humans have evolved, just we aren't apes.
    I don't know where you're getting this whole 'transitional' species argument from. All mammals can be traced back to a single common ancestor. The same happens with most fish, reptiles, birds etc. You essentially work your way back and see where related species gained or lost certain attributes. 'Transitional species' is what every single animal is. With every new generation the genetic code is altered and eventually an entirely new species develops.

    Evolution has to include a beginning. Something to evolve from to start with.
    Yes and this is what abiogenesis is about.

    The question becomes; if we evolved from apes, how did every other transitional species die out but yet they remained?
    Which apes are you talking about? That's like saying that if you have blond kids and they have blond kids the fact that their kids may be blond also means that you were blond and couldn't have possibly been a brunette. That's not how genetics works. I'm going to be ultra-simplistic in this explanation but every single time a species reproduces it essentially plays Russian roulette with the genes. Some genes are passed down, some are not. The same happens on a wider scale with evolution. Hundreds of ape species have evolved through millions of years. Some have survived, others haven't. However all have common traits which prove that they couldn't possibly be unrelated.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 10-21-10 at 04:47 PM.
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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Tons? Hardly when we are talkng about millions of years. Even the evolutionists admit that huge gaps exist in the chain of transitional species. Most do not claim that humans have evolved, just we aren't apes.
    List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    These are just the ones found in the fossil record so far. Further, since evolution is a continuous process, every species is a transitional species.

    Evolution has to include a beginning. Something to evolve from to start with.
    Evolution deals with a process in nature involving living organisms. It requires life to exist to happen. Bio-genesis is a separate theory unrelated to evolution.

    The question becomes; if we evolved from apes, how did every other transitional species die out but yet they remained?
    Say huh what?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham
    Iíve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals. - Lindsey Graham

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