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Thread: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Not that being the sole thing to come out of that statement no. I see where making no law pretty obviously means no state religion since such a thing would require a law to happen.



    The article does not address whether this meeting is solely used for religious purposes or if there is also a political interest there. If it was used for worship or other purely religious activity, it would be a huge problem and yes I would be angry about it. Right now though, there seems to be a lot of info left out.
    Do you even know what CAIR is? It doesn't matter if it was for prayer. A religious group held a meeting in the capital.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It isn't so easy in the non religious private sector.. People have protections like Title VIII that protects religious groups from being punished because of their religious beliefs.. A Catholic school can and has booted people for things that would have easily gone to a civil trial if they were a private company, expect they are protected under the first amendment to terminate employment for moral reasons.. such as being pregnant and unwed or a religious conversion.


    But, again, Catholic schools are private and therefore not bound by the Constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do you even know what CAIR is? It doesn't matter if it was for prayer. A religious group held a meeting in the capital.
    I am not aware of who they are. However, what they are doing is more important than who they are in these matters (unless they are criminals or something like that).

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I am not aware of who they are. However, what they are doing is more important than who they are in these matters (unless they are criminals or something like that).
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, ok! Nooooooow, we know!

    CAIR is the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

    If that were a Christian orginization, I'm sure you would be totally appalled at their presence in the capital.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I am not aware of who they are. However, what they are doing is more important than who they are in these matters (unless they are criminals or something like that).
    Really?

    There's another letter circulating on Capitol Hill affirming federal law enforcement's belief that the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is the product of a Hamas-support network in the United States.


    Read more at: DOJ: CAIR's Unindicted Co-Conspirator Status Legit :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Again.. it just goes back to understanding the scientific method. It's a great way to learn about logic and theory, and intellectual exchange of ideas.. design a hypothesis or a theory, improve theories.. constantly test them. If you don't really agree with some aspect of evolution.. guess what?
    Most kids are beat over the head with the scientific method from elementary school all the way through high school. I certainly never took a science class that didn't discuss it in some capacity - maybe chemistry. Problem is, most really don't understand it and aren't taught to understand it. They simply come to learn it as a series of four steps and may understand that it helps to limit bias, yadda yadda.

    Science is taught as truth and fact, when it's really more of an approach for understanding the world. Our education system gives kids the mistaken impression that science is a series of discoveries, like we're climbing some ladder to enlightment. The truth is of course different. No time is really spent discussing how experiments don't prove hypotheses, that science is fallible, or that ideas supported by science are not absolute and can change.

    Most are blissfully unaware that the "scientific method" you're championing is a highly oversimplified representation of how science really works, that science doesn't actually "prove" anything, and that science isn't inherently objective, but is critically dependent on a robust and diverse community.

    Most don't know how unscientific words such as "consensus," "established," and "proven," are.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, again, Catholic schools are private and therefore not bound by the Constitution.
    But again.. people have civil rights. A private company can't outright refuse to hire you because you are Christian or Jewish... Try it and it will go to a civil court. But if a religious school refuses to hire a Jew, that is ok. If a Jewish School outright refuses to give a Catholic a teaching position, that is ok.. it's legal it's first admend rights

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I like how you act like it's just partisan politics..
    I said "politicians" not "democrats." Pelosi was called a "witch" just this week and it's not like the Republicans haven't thrown the Nazi label around.

    I think your defensiveness is more a reflection of your own partisanship.
    Last edited by Taylor; 10-20-10 at 08:34 PM.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Most kids are beat over the head with the scientific method from elementary school all the way through high school. I certainly never took a science class that didn't discuss it in some capacity - maybe chemistry. Problem is, most really don't understand it and aren't taught to understand it. They simply come to learn it as a series of four steps and may understand that it helps to limit bias, yadda yadda.

    Science is taught as truth and fact, when it's really more of an approach for understanding the world. Our education system gives kids the mistaken impression that science is a series of discoveries, like we're climbing some ladder to enlightment. The truth is of course different. No time is really spent discussing how experiments don't prove hypotheses, that science is fallible, or that ideas supported by science are not absolute and can change.

    Most are blissfully unaware that the "scientific method" you're championing is a highly oversimplified representation of how science really works, that science doesn't actually "prove" anything, and that science isn't inherently objective, but is critically dependent on a robust and diverse community.

    Most don't know how unscientific words such as "consensus," "established," and "proven," are.
    First paragraph is you explaining how you and others are taught the method.. how it's beat into your head

    The rest of your post is ironically the ramblings of somebody who doesn't comprehend the scientific method.. perhaps you were a poor student or you quality of education was lacking.

    The scientific method does support that science does change in terms of understanding and explaining the world... Just look at the history of our understanding of the solar system. It has drastically changed. It went from thinking the earth was flat, to the sun and stars moves around us.. then to the earth moving, and then to the earth spinning on an axis.

    Scientific facts and laws don't change.. theories do. Theories are build around a framework of laws and facts..

    Science isn't fallible.. the tests can be.. the theories can be. Saying science is fallible is like saying human logic is fallible. And if human logic is fallible then we'll just divide by zero, and the whole world will explode.

    I was taught science by somebody who valued the study, it's apparent you don't value science. You act like science is useless. I was taught about testing and all the things you claim people are not taught or do not understand. I value science.. I think you misunderstand it..

    The method is simplistic.. that is the point..

    Saying science isn't objective is totally inaccurate.. Ask people if the theory of evolution is a theory or a fact? There is no subjective answer if the answer is a scientific answer. The objective scientific answer is that it is a THEORY.

    Is ID a scientific theory? No it's a theory, not a scientific one..

    Give an example of where science fails to be objective.. Do you have any example of science cramming a lie down our throats?
    Last edited by SheWolf; 10-20-10 at 08:56 PM.

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    Re: O'Donnell Questions Separation of Church, State in Senate Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    But again.. people have civil rights. A private company can't outright refuse to hire you because you are Christian or Jewish... Try it and it will go to a civil court. But if a religious school refuses to hire a Jew, that is ok. If a Jewish School outright refuses to give a Catholic a teaching position, that is ok.. it's legal it's first admend rights
    No, but they can control your speech, if it's contrary to company policy. It's just like when a company has a policy that prohibits the possession of a firearm on company property.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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