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Thread: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

  1. #61
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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    I read this:

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, they, "suck", just because you said it? Be careful, all those troop lovin' Liberals are going to smoke your ass over that comment.

    You dog me for being, as you say, on the losing end of every argument, yet you have ZERO evidence to support your contention that American soldiers, "suck". Redress isn't going to be too happy with your performance, here.
    but all I see is this:


    \
    HULK SMASH!



    Seriously, though, look at it this way -- I'm sure you'd be willing to stipulate that our military is the best-equipped, the best-trained and so forth, right?

    So how come a bunch of rag-tags with improvised explosives and no uniforms have, as a loosely-allied entity, stood up to us for the last several years and kept us from claiming anything close to a decisive victory?

    We suck at guerrilla warfare.

    Personally, I think we should bring Switzerland in to consult. They're pretty good at that sort of thing, and they've got lots of mountains for us to practice in without fear of being sniped.

    Yes, I'm being serious.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    What you see as "sucking at guerrilla warfare", many see as "political interference" not allowing the military to fight in a way as a situation may dictate.

  3. #63
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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Seriously, though, look at it this way -- I'm sure you'd be willing to stipulate that our military is the best-equipped, the best-trained and so forth, right?
    Of course. Their performance exhibits that to be a fact.

    So how come a bunch of rag-tags with improvised explosives and no uniforms have, as a loosely-allied entity, stood up to us for the last several years and kept us from claiming anything close to a decisive victory?
    Because we are unable to engage tens, or even hundreds of thousands of the enemy at one time. In past wars--pre-Vietnam--the start to finish time was shorter; not only did we hit the enemy with the maximum amount of violence, but we were able to project that level of violence upon thousands of the enemy, at once.

    In Iraq, we engaged a dozen--plus or minus--of the enemy, at any given time. That being the case, it's obviously going to take longer to subdue the enemy's will/ability to wage war. You're confusing results with a time frame. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if we had killed 100,000 insurgents in the first six months, the war in Iraq would have already been decided. However, that's not the case. It took us 6 years to kill 100,000 insurgents. We killed 100,000 insurgents and the insurgents killed less than 4,000 Coalition troops. That's a 25:1 kill ratio, in favor of the coalition. 25 insurgent KIA to 1 Coalition KIA. That can only indicate that the insurgents suck donkey balls at waging unconventional warfare. Not us! The insurgents have launched approximately 80,000 IED's and all told scored under 4,000 KIA's. That's not exactly a huge sign of success.

    So, again, how are you guaging the suck factor of American troops, when engaging assymetrical forces?





    Personally, I think we should bring Switzerland in to consult. They're pretty good at that sort of thing, and they've got lots of mountains for us to practice in without fear of being sniped.

    Yes, I'm being serious.
    That has to be the most idiotic statement I've ever heard. The Swiss are good at what, exactly? Guerilla warfare? The Swiss army hasn't been in a war in centuries--literally!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    We suck at guerrilla warfare.
    Thats not true at all, in fact, the United States Military is the pre-eminent anti-insurgency group in the world. Ever since Vietname, we've been developing protocol, and tactics for dealing with guerilla fighters, and we're pretty freaking good at it. The problem is military strength can only control an insurgency, it can't wipe it out. Our soliders have kicked insurgent ass, but a final solution to this type of problem is a political solution, and in such a religiously polarized environment, it takes generations to fight the ignorance that is the source of this insurgency.

    There really is no doubt that we could defeat Al Qaeda eventually but it wouldn't be worth it to stay and completely eradicate them, because it'd **** us up pretty bad too, in terms of losses, politics, and economics. Same scenario in Afghanistan, but it isn't as far along as Iraq is.

    Our middle of the road approach is going to stabilize Iraq for some time, maybe a few years, but we need to tackle Iran, who is causing a sh**load of problems for us throughout the Middle East.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
    -Gaius Julius Caesar
    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
    -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Thats not true at all, in fact, the United States Military is the pre-eminent anti-insurgency group in the world. Ever since Vietname, we've been developing protocol, and tactics for dealing with guerilla fighters, and we're pretty freaking good at it. The problem is military strength can only control an insurgency, it can't wipe it out. Our soliders have kicked insurgent ass, but a final solution to this type of problem is a political solution, and in such a religiously polarized environment, it takes generations to fight the ignorance that is the source of this insurgency.

    There really is no doubt that we could defeat Al Qaeda eventually but it wouldn't be worth it to stay and completely eradicate them, because it'd **** us up pretty bad too, in terms of losses, politics, and economics. Same scenario in Afghanistan, but it isn't as far along as Iraq is.

    Our middle of the road approach is going to stabilize Iraq for some time, maybe a few years, but we need to tackle Iran, who is causing a sh**load of problems for us throughout the Middle East.
    It's been proven that that's not going to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    But why do you think we suck at fighting against guerillas?
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
    -Gaius Julius Caesar
    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
    -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's been proven that that's not going to work.
    How? ten char.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
    -Gaius Julius Caesar
    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
    -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    How? ten char.
    How, you say? Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, perhaps? Has a, "political solution", worked in any of those wars?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How, you say? Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, perhaps? Has a, "political solution", worked in any of those wars?
    Political as in keep the military in the country, while developing infrastructure.

    Vietnam can't be politically compared to Iraq and Afghanistan because we were fighting a political enemy-communists. Right now, we're fighting something far more dangerous, but at the same time more combatable, religious fanatics. With our current case, over a long period of time, you can almost wipe out the fanatics in an area just by educating the populace, and waiting for the prejudices to die out over time.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
    -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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    Re: Iraqi Sunnis Trained by U.S. Return to al Qaeda

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Political as in keep the military in the country, while developing infrastructure.

    Vietnam can't be politically compared to Iraq and Afghanistan because we were fighting a political enemy-communists. Right now, we're fighting something far more dangerous, but at the same time more combatable, religious fanatics. With our current case, over a long period of time, you can almost wipe out the fanatics in an area just by educating the populace, and waiting for the prejudices to die out over time.
    No matter how you define the enemy, a political solution isn't the answer. Wars are won on the battlefield, not the political arena.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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