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Thread: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I don't agree. The reason why liberals are against forcing women to remove their burkas has its roots in feminism. We think that by forcing them to take it off that we are freeing them, but if it is not their empowered choice to do so it is actually moving against their freedom to choose, which is the entire basis of being in the free world in the first place. It is essentially a contradiction of our own western notions of individual rights.

    In exactly the same way that the continuation of slavery in this country in the 19th century would have represented civil rights. You see, since so many house slaves expressed satisfaction with their lot, then supporting slavery was really the way to show your support for the empowerment of African Americans to make that choice! After all, slavery was the entire basis of the free world in the first place!

    Yep -- let's use the fact that some have been beaten down so thoroughly as to accept their own second class status to support an entire system of degradation and then claim we are actually supporting the opposite of what we are supporting.

    Hey, look, Orion -- I found a few gay people who think gay people are mentally ill and should be institutionalized. To show my support, I'm going to put you in a straight jacket and lock you away.

    What all of you self-proclaimed study has failed to show you is that your support for the most regressive elements within a population hurts most those you have convinced yourself that you are somehow supporting. I'm reminded of those who support the corrupt Mullahs in Iran under the misapprehension they are somehow supporting Muslims in that all you are hurting are those people struggling for rights. You can toot your own horn and brag all you want about your education, but the repetition of hackneyed dogma does not an intellectual make. It is the ability to see through the sophistry and offer something original that is the true mark of an intellect you are so eager to claim for yourself.
    Last edited by Gardener; 10-18-10 at 09:55 AM.
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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    How can you integrate into a society that tries to keep you separate?
    That's what multiculturalism IS -- preserving the distinctness of different cultures rather than encouraging assimilation.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    In exactly the same way that the continuation of slavery in this country in the 19th century would have represented civil rights. You see, since so many house slaves expressed satisfaction with their lot, then supporting slavery was really the way to show your support for the empowerment of African Americans to make that choice! After all, slavery was the entire basis of the free world in the first place!
    You ignore the most important part of his post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The hatred for Muslims in the western world is higher than it has been in more than a century and so this new found concern for women who wear burkas is based on that and not much else. Suddenly everyone is an 'expert' on Islam and what is good for these women but it's just a bunch of mainstream BS.

    I love how this rise of worry about Muslim women coincides with the dislike of the religion.
    Don't bother pretending you or anyone else care about Muslim women's right in the West or anywhere else in the world. Hell your country single handedly has done more to ruin it than anyone else by its support of Royals and dictatorships

    Oh and lol @ comparing it to Slavery. Seriously. LOL
    Last edited by Laila; 10-18-10 at 10:13 AM.


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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Second and third generation and they haven't integrated. Sorry, not buying it. Neither are the Swedes.
    So don't buy it. It doesn't make it any less of a fact. Germany is not alone in this. Switzerland has the same problem. 20% of our population are foreigners, many of them 2nd even 3rd generation who STILL are made to feel like they don't belong. Not just that, but the path to citizenship is long, expensive and very demanding.


    1. These guest workers were never forced to go anywhere, and they came because the money was pretty good and work was plentiful.
    Well, duh. That's usually why people immigrate.

    2. I don't know if it's an arrogant assumption... it's what government "planned" for, and once again... government failed. I'm sure the guest workers were told before what the score was; could be wrong. Don't know the original law that brought them in; do you?
    They were given work permits and then residency permits, and all the while obtaining actual citizenship remained long, expensive and complicated and was never encouraged. Only recently was the law changed where foreign kids born in Germany can get citizenship when they reach their 23rd birthday, provided they actually ASK for it and their parents were residents for 5 to 8 years when the kid was born.

    3. Cake and eat it? And you claim they "would not" leave... so why not integrate then? Especially after several generations? Want to talk about having your cake and eat it???!!!
    The 2nd and 3rd generations are integrated up to a point. They speak German, have a German education and German friends. But they are constantly reminded that they are NOT German and don't really belong there. It's pretty much the same deal here in Switzerland. "Ausländer" are treated like second class citizens and citizenship is not given to just anybody who asks. Being Swiss is considered a privilege and you need to prove that you are 100% integrated in every way before they even give you chance.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    So....

    A right wing german claims says that Multiculturalism has failed. That immigrants are "not welcome"...

    And some of you in this thread are having a bukkake session over this, claiming that she's absolutely right...

    Since when did

    A: The conservatives who support her claims in this thread, start listening to right wing germans.
    B; The conservatives who support her claims in this thread, start listening to the leader of a "socialist" nation

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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    You ignore the most important part of his post:




    I ignored the dogmatism , yes. I prefer expressions of original thought.

    Yep -- support the burka or you don't like Muslims! That is SO deep, and so indicative of an extensive education.
    Last edited by Gardener; 10-18-10 at 11:21 AM.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    So....

    A right wing german claims says that Multiculturalism has failed. That immigrants are "not welcome"...

    And some of you in this thread are having a bukkake session over this, claiming that she's absolutely right...

    Since when did

    A: The conservatives who support her claims in this thread, start listening to right wing germans.
    B; The conservatives who support her claims in this thread, start listening to the leader of a "socialist" nation
    She didn't say that they're not welcome. In fact, she said exactly the opposite. What she did say is that the German government failed these people big time. And in that, she is 100% correct.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    So....

    A right wing german claims says that Multiculturalism has failed. That immigrants are "not welcome"...

    And some of you in this thread are having a bukkake session over this, claiming that she's absolutely right...

    Since when did

    A: The conservatives who support her claims in this thread, start listening to right wing germans.
    B; The conservatives who support her claims in this thread, start listening to the leader of a "socialist" nation
    Yeah, how dare conservatives provide any insight on an issue where german socialists are concerned... conservatives never weigh in about such things. Are you for real?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    That's what multiculturalism IS -- preserving the distinctness of different cultures rather than encouraging assimilation.
    I'm not defending multiculturalism - I'm explaining to zimmer why he can't accuse Turks (OR any other ethnic groups) based in Germany of not trying to integrate - be they 1st gen or 5th gen immigrants.

    If the dominant society doesn't allow or encourage migrants to become German, then there is no impetus to do so.

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    Re: Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    In exactly the same way that the continuation of slavery in this country in the 19th century would have represented civil rights. You see, since so many house slaves expressed satisfaction with their lot, then supporting slavery was really the way to show your support for the empowerment of African Americans to make that choice! After all, slavery was the entire basis of the free world in the first place!

    Yep -- let's use the fact that some have been beaten down so thoroughly as to accept their own second class status to support an entire system of degradation and then claim we are actually supporting the opposite of what we are supporting.

    Hey, look, Orion -- I found a few gay people who think gay people are mentally ill and should be institutionalized. To show my support, I'm going to put you in a straight jacket and lock you away.

    What all of you self-proclaimed study has failed to show you is that your support for the most regressive elements within a population hurts most those you have convinced yourself that you are somehow supporting. I'm reminded of those who support the corrupt Mullahs in Iran under the misapprehension they are somehow supporting Muslims in that all you are hurting are those people struggling for rights. You can toot your own horn and brag all you want about your education, but the repetition of hackneyed dogma does not an intellectual make. It is the ability to see through the sophistry and offer something original that is the true mark of an intellect you are so eager to claim for yourself.
    The Quran says women should wear the hijab. If a devout Muslim woman believes she should wear the hijab then it is no different from a nun wearing a habit. Are nuns oppressed? Should we force nuns to stop wearing habits?
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

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