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Thread: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The legislative laws can be struck down if they are unconstitutional, and DADT fits the bill. The term "judical activism" doesn't really mean anything. If judges make decisions within the confines of their responsibilities and powers, then they aren't stepping out of line, even if we happen to disagree. Judical activism just means you disagree with the ruling... in which case, just be honest and say you disagree. Don't act like the judges are abusing power when they're not.
    "Activist Judges" is just a term that the right wing whackos like to use whenever they disagree with a judicial decision. They have no problem when judges overturn laws or make judicial decisions on issues that they support. In fact, they are actively seeking to put "activist judges" on the bench to overturn the one issue that they care about more than anything - Roe v. Wade. Its hypocrisy at its core...
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Possibly, but neither of us have any evidence to support our individual points of view.



    IMO, the door is being flung wide open for a witch hunt on gays in the miltiary. That's why I've advocated for DADT to remain in place and the ban on gays be lifted. This is all being done bass ackwards. But, again, we'll see.
    First, I said that I have personally seen gays discharged for just being gay. For me, that is proof that there are gays being discharged in the military just because they are gay, and not because they are causing any other problems or aren't doing their jobs. I have no idea what the percentages are for those who are just found out to be gay, those who turn themselves in, or those who are discipline problems (although if they are discipline problems, then it wouldn't take DADT to remove them from the service).

    Second, maybe you should have read the post I made right above the one you quoted where I explicitly said that I included the code to keep gays from serving in the military as DADT. I figured it should be fine since the media and our own Congress refers to them as if they are one (which, honestly, they pretty much are). The addendum to that bill that didn't pass was actually going to completely remove the code that bans gay from serving in the military, which includes DADT. It was packaged and sold as being a bill to repeal DADT though, and when it hit the media, they simply stated the bill was removing DADT, although technically the wording would have removed all the parts of that code which keep gays from serving at all.
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    The question I am having, is that at what level of the court system do they have the authority to go from upholding legislative law, to overturning it? I'm not law savvy at all, and I don't understand how someone in # circuit court can strike down legislative law passed in Washington D.C. I would figure that is the purview of the Supreme Court exclusively, but it appears that may be wrong.
    The case is in the 9th Circuit because the person that the Log Cabin Republicans are using for judicial standing is (or was) stationed in Arizona. All three levels of the federal court system can overrule a law (district, circuit, and SCOTUS).

    With that said, the Supreme Court will probably overrule this judge. They typically reserve issues involving the military to the executive (the constitutional Commander in Chief) or to the legislature. They rarely interfere unless there is an explicit clause in the Constitution to direct them otherwise. This is due to the clause in our Constitution that states the President:

    "...shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States." Article II, Section 2, Clause I

    The ruling: 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Lawsuit Documents
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Except that when a Circuit Court rules that it usually only affects that circuit. The only federal court that affects every state equally is the Supreme Court.
    Due to DADT being a federal law, this ruling applies to the entire country (if not successfully appealed).
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Here's a question for those thinking that this is progress: Why should Civil Law at any level apply to the Armed Forces (???) Now I think that the SCOTUS should of course be the Final Authority - but lower than that it's either CIC or the Military Courts.

    I know some can come up witth a few bizarre overlaps - but I would suggest they are aberrations and should be viewed as such. Anybody heard of that word Discipline ??

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Racine View Post
    Here's a question for those thinking that this is progress: Why should Civil Law at any level apply to the Armed Forces (???) Now I think that the SCOTUS should of course be the Final Authority - but lower than that it's either CIC or the Military Courts.

    I know some can come up witth a few bizarre overlaps - but I would suggest they are aberrations and should be viewed as such. Anybody heard of that word Discipline ??
    Civilian supremecy. The military exists to serve civilians, not the other way around.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Racine View Post
    Here's a question for those thinking that this is progress: Why should Civil Law at any level apply to the Armed Forces (???) Now I think that the SCOTUS should of course be the Final Authority - but lower than that it's either CIC or the Military Courts.

    I know some can come up witth a few bizarre overlaps - but I would suggest they are aberrations and should be viewed as such. Anybody heard of that word Discipline ??
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    I would very much support a Constitutional Amendment that would permit the removal of any Federal Judge all the way up to the Supreme Court by a 2/3 vote of "WE THE PEOPLE" for a few things such as "Judicial Activism," and I would also like to as part of that a law the says once a decision is made in a case or on a law by the Supreme Court may never be reviewed again.

    Just thinking out loud, Something needs to be done to end the craziness.

    I would also like to see a way for "WE THE PEOPLE" to remove any elected office with a vote of no confidence and if were a President all we should have to do is have another person on the Ballot to replace them so we would never have even think about having an imbecile like Biden, or Dan Quayle make us afraid to get rid of someone who lied their way in to Office, or turns out to be Anti-American.

    As for the Gay ruling when and if it proves to be a mistake that leads to death them the Judge who made the decision should face prison for manslaughter.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First, I said that I have personally seen gays discharged for just being gay. For me, that is proof that there are gays being discharged in the military just because they are gay, and not because they are causing any other problems or aren't doing their jobs. I have no idea what the percentages are for those who are just found out to be gay, those who turn themselves in, or those who are discipline problems (although if they are discipline problems, then it wouldn't take DADT to remove them from the service).

    Second, maybe you should have read the post I made right above the one you quoted where I explicitly said that I included the code to keep gays from serving in the military as DADT. I figured it should be fine since the media and our own Congress refers to them as if they are one (which, honestly, they pretty much are). The addendum to that bill that didn't pass was actually going to completely remove the code that bans gay from serving in the military, which includes DADT. It was packaged and sold as being a bill to repeal DADT though, and when it hit the media, they simply stated the bill was removing DADT, although technically the wording would have removed all the parts of that code which keep gays from serving at all.
    The ban on gays serving in the military isn't a part of US code.

    I invite you to show me where it is.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Open game? What does that even mean? It's not like the military is allowed to gang beat gays now, and it's not like there are suddenly big gay circuit parties happening in military bases the world over (although the though of that is rather amusing). The military, as of right now, is not allowed to enforce DADT.

    Let me make it simple for you:

    1) Being openly gay in the military is still against the rules.

    2) Right now the military cannot punish someone for being openly gay.

    The two are separate but related. The separation is important in understanding the nature of this ruling. It is still not really safe to be out of the closet for a couple of reasons. One is that #2 could be reversed, in which case if you come out now, you could be kicked out later. The other reason is that #1 still makes it unacceptable, even if you can't be punished for it.

    I seriously doubt we are going to see gays coming out right now. The whole rule needs to be destroyed before that can safely happen.
    1) You're correct and catching on fast.

    2) Oh, but yes they can. There hasn't been a injunction filed against the actual DoD regulations that ban gays from the military.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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