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Thread: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

  1. #21
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    I say this is possibly one step closer to gays being allowed to serve openly. Most likely the full removal of DADT and the code that actually keeps gays from serving in the military will go away within the next year or two, but could possibly take up to 5 (don't really think it will take 5 years, but you never know). I don't really know how long this injunction will last or if the military will even abide by it.

    I do see a couple of possibilities. 1) The military completely ignores the injunction and puts out people anyway under DADT. Most likely this case will go further, so once a final decision is reached, then the disposition of those put out after the injunction was ordered would need to be included in the ruling. Otherwise, there is just going to be future court cases concerning those members. 2) The military respects the injunction until the DOJ can get an appeal filed and another judge/court to remove the injunction. Now, it might happen that they can't get the injunction removed during the entire process, but it seems that these cases go back and forth, so it is possible. Any discharges under DADT now and in the near future would be put off until a different verdict is given, if they ever get one.

    Overall though, DADT should be gone shortly. (And, by DADT, I am personally referring to the code that keeps military members from serving in the military as a whole, not just the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" part.)
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We must admit that we don't always get the whole story in those cases. In actuality, the only evidence that gays, disharged under DADT, had exemplary service records are media articles and we all know that they don't always show the whole picture.

    Personally, I don't think is going to have the happy ending that the DADT abolitionists think, because as I've pointed out before, DADT is the actual ban on gays. But we'll see.
    There are some who are certainly being discharged just due to DADT, not their own performance. I have seen it personally.

    However, I think that one of the big things it will do is eliminate the fear that gays could be targeted for a witch hunt and discharged just because someone in their upper chain of command is rumored to be against gays. Another big plus is that it does keep people from using the DADT loop hole just to get out of the military without really getting any punishment.
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    DADT is federal statutory law passed by Congress. It is part of the US code. A federal judge has jurisdiction over such law as best I can tell, though I am not finding any actual legal experts commenting on it either way. However, the fact that outside of message boards, no one is questioning the jurisdiction leads me to believe that it is not a real issue.
    yes, I agree with that. However, a civilian judge doesn't have authority over the UCMJ and military regulations. i.e sodomy is still a crime under the UCMJ and punishable by courts martial. Also, DADT isn't the actual ban on gays serving in the miltiary. That ban was first instituted by Harry Truman and later reinforced by Reagan.
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There are some who are certainly being discharged just due to DADT, not their own performance. I have seen it personally.
    Possibly, but neither of us have any evidence to support our individual points of view.

    However, I think that one of the big things it will do is eliminate the fear that gays could be targeted for a witch hunt and discharged just because someone in their upper chain of command is rumored to be against gays. Another big plus is that it does keep people from using the DADT loop hole just to get out of the military without really getting any punishment.
    IMO, the door is being flung wide open for a witch hunt on gays in the miltiary. That's why I've advocated for DADT to remain in place and the ban on gays be lifted. This is all being done bass ackwards. But, again, we'll see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    yes, I agree with that. However, a civilian judge doesn't have authority over the UCMJ and military regulations. i.e sodomy is still a crime under the UCMJ and punishable by courts martial. Also, DADT isn't the actual ban on gays serving in the miltiary. That ban was first instituted by Harry Truman and later reinforced by Reagan.
    The injunction was for discharges under DADT. I think most if not all(probably all) discharges for being gay are under DADT rules, then this stops, temporarily at least, discharges for people being gay. Sodomy laws are, as always, a red herring, since they would have to be enforced the same for every one, which means just don't do it where others can see and nothing to worry about.
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    I hope they appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court. It'll be another 17 years before Congress gets around to voting on it. We might as well just get it struck down when Congress can't even make sure its military policies aren't hurting national security and Constitutional rights.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    IMO, the door is being flung wide open for a witch hunt on gays in the miltiary. That's why I've advocated for DADT to remain in place and the ban on gays be lifted. This is all being done bass ackwards. But, again, we'll see.
    The amendment to the defense appropriations bill that did not pass the senate would have taken care of this in one fell swoop. However, the judge does not make law, and cannot do it all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If the judge has no authority then what good is the ruling? Its like a judge in Spain trying to try Bush for war crimes, if the judge has no authority then it is meaningless.
    Well - if he had no authority then it qualifies for appeal.

    Appeals in federal-court don't have very far up the rung to travel - and whatever comes from that appeal ruling *is it* . . absolute final.
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    yes, I agree with that. However, a civilian judge doesn't have authority over the UCMJ and military regulations. i.e sodomy is still a crime under the UCMJ and punishable by courts martial. Also, DADT isn't the actual ban on gays serving in the miltiary. That ban was first instituted by Harry Truman and later reinforced by Reagan.
    Who cares? They don't enforce the sodomy ban on heterosexual people, so I doubt they will enforce it on gay people.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The amendment to the defense appropriations bill that did not pass the senate would have taken care of this in one fell swoop. However, the judge does not make law, and cannot do it all.
    Unless the SCOTUS overturns its self - which it has done before, most recently with the two sodomy law cases it took to the top.

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