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Thread: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

  1. #131
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You need to face reality, DOD is the one who is conducting the current review in progress so that they can figure out the problems that might come from allowing gays to serve openly in the military, not just the repeal of DADT. Much of the upper brass of the military is for allowing gays to serve openly. This tells me, that when it comes down to it, it is most likely that the military itself will change any rules or orders that may be necessary to ensure that gays can serve openly. It is not very likely that Congress would take it very well if they repealed all the codes/acts/whatever on their part to ensure that gays can serve openly, but then the military decides to go ahead and try to prevent that from happening. The military is still accountable to Congress, the SCOTUS, and most importantly, the President, who is the CIC.
    Then, how 'bout everybody chill the hell out and let them finish the review, rather than launching a crusade?

    Much of the upper brass of the military is for allowing gays to serve openly.
    Care to show us some docs supporting that opinion?

    It is not very likely that Congress would take it very well if they repealed all the codes/acts/whatever on their part to ensure that gays can serve openly, but then the military decides to go ahead and try to prevent that from happening. The military is still accountable to Congress, the SCOTUS, and most importantly, the President, who is the CIC.
    Neither Congress, nor the Supreme Court establish DoD regulations. Neither of them have anything to do with the UCMJ.

    It seems that I'm not the one who needs to face reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #132
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Obamanator View Post
    Here's the problem the top guys in Washington are concerned with... if gays serve openly.

    First off... motivating the enemy is a problem and we can't forget who we're fighting. Everyone knows Muslims are homophobes who would just as soon shoot a gay man as look at him. The brass are thinking the timing isn't quite right for this.... We gotta either pull out first or else kill all the muslims.

    There are some other considerations aside from the current war...

    #1. There will be significantly less "bubbas" joining up... and we need our bubbas because they're some bad ass mother ****ers who have no problem going into tough/hot spots where the enemy needs killing...

    #2. There will be a whole lot more "ruperts" joining up. We need our ruperts too because the military can't exist without cooks, clerks, nurses... etc

    So the end result could be a need for a draft.... which we all know the libs aint gonna let happen. Damn it!! They're also thinking they might need to significantly increase the payscale and give more bonuses to the combat troops... to keep them in and coming in.

    These are the kinda thoughts going on in these Generals minds as they consider this issue. They're concerned there will be a major decrease in volunteers needed to fill all the more risky military occupations. The armed forces will have just a few guys joining up for the infantry and will be saturated with support forces. Now on the surface, that doesn't seem like much of a problem since less than 10% of the military actually see combat anyway... and now days we use drones, napalm...etc

    However, the DOD knows the most important thing [for national security] is how our enemys perceive us as a threat. Will they come to view us as a strong tough force ready and willing to fight or some kinda patsy that they can now push around???

    Another thing... the Joint Chiefs [after smoking some really good bud] worry that General Petreas is a closet gay and if he comes out in the open... the afghans will surrender their best looking taliban dudes to seduce our commander into pulling all our troops out early.

    AND if that happens we'll need another war... so we'll finally invade Iran and those sumbiches would like nothing better than to kill off all our gay soldiers.

    I do want to add a disclaimer to this... my wife tells me I'm suffering from dementia so I may not be thinking clearly and there might be one or two flaws to this "logic".
    I'm betting that if gays are allowed to serve openly, that there will be MOS restictions placed on them, just like the no combat arms restrictions that have been placed on female soldiers.

    The Commandant of The Marine Corps has already suggested the need for seperate billets for gay and straight personel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #133
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I'm sorry but

    WHAT!?!?!?!

    Even if I were to concede your point that we'd be putting gays in harms way, Aren't all soldiers regardless of anything still in harms way?

    Sorry ass excuse for an argument.
    Because Muslims are homophobes. Homosexual behavior is met with the death penalty in most Muslim countries.



    Bubba must be flattered.

    Why can't a gay man be a bad ass mother ****er. [/b]I know some gay guys that would beat up the toughest straight guys I know.[/b]
    They might get a bullet to their grape, during a firefight, too.


    Just the fact this is what you have to say, disqualifies you from rational debate.
    You don't even know who, "Rupert", is, do you?



    We still use napalm? :confused
    We use FEW's--Fuel Air Weapons. Might as well call it napalm, because it does the same damn thing.

    Absolute bollocks, show one piece of credible evidence that suggests that recruitment would go down if gays were allowed to serve openly (gays serve anyway)
    Show one piece of credible evidence that says recruitment would go up.



    What's that?

    More baseless homophobic nonsense.



    I'd say she's not wrong there buddy.
    And, the grand finally of personal attacks. Speaking of, "rationale debate".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #134
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because Muslims are homophobes. Homosexual behavior is met with the death penalty in most Muslim countries.
    Surely Jews must also be homophobes then. Their book says the same thing. How come you never mention Jews?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #135
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because Muslims are homophobes. Homosexual behavior is met with the death penalty in most Muslim countries.
    You do know that several Christian country's in Africa have the death penalty for homosexuality, right?

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Surely Jews must also be homophobes then. Their book says the same thing. How come you never mention Jews?
    The reality of the situation does not match your preconceptions.

    Thousands take part in Tel Aviv gay pride parade - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm betting that if gays are allowed to serve openly, that there will be MOS restictions placed on them, just like the no combat arms restrictions that have been placed on female soldiers.

    The Commandant of The Marine Corps has already suggested the need for seperate billets for gay and straight personel.
    Why would they have any need to place MOS restrictions on gays. Gay men are already in those MOSs. If they are proving that they can do the job, then why keep them out? Anyone who is uncomfortable with serving with guys that they know are gay are the ones with the problem. Especially if we are talking about guys that these guys have already been serving with.

    There are a lot of reasons that women are not in combat MOSs, the very least of which is the potential for a relationship. Women are physically weaker than men. In our society, women are a distraction to most men. Many American men are taught from birth to respect and protect women. And many of those that aren't, don't respect women at all. Women can get pregnant. Women have a monthly period. Not one of these things applies to gay men. And the potential for a relationship, while there, is very small just because of the other rules that the military has concerning fraternization and the fact that many of these guys know that if they are in a relationship that could negatively effect morale, then they could be causing damage to their unit.

    There is no reason to have separate billets and/or heads/showers for gays and straights. There really wouldn't be any way to do this completely anyway. Some gays are going to want to stay in the closet, and just because they can declare they are gay doesn't mean they will have to. But the main point is that nobody does this. It isn't done in the civilian world, nor is it done in any military that already allows gays to serve openly. Gays and straights already share spaces. There is no biological difference between gays and straights of the same sex, unlike men and women who have several biological differences.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  8. #138
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You do know that several Christian country's in Africa have the death penalty for homosexuality, right?
    So, you're saying that Africans are homophobes, too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #139
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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why would they have any need to place MOS restrictions on gays. Gay men are already in those MOSs. If they are proving that they can do the job, then why keep them out? Anyone who is uncomfortable with serving with guys that they know are gay are the ones with the problem. Especially if we are talking about guys that these guys have already been serving with.

    There are a lot of reasons that women are not in combat MOSs, the very least of which is the potential for a relationship. Women are physically weaker than men. In our society, women are a distraction to most men. Many American men are taught from birth to respect and protect women. And many of those that aren't, don't respect women at all. Women can get pregnant. Women have a monthly period. Not one of these things applies to gay men. And the potential for a relationship, while there, is very small just because of the other rules that the military has concerning fraternization and the fact that many of these guys know that if they are in a relationship that could negatively effect morale, then they could be causing damage to their unit.
    The reason for resticting gays from combat arms MOS's is the same reason that females are restricted from combat arms MOS's: too much potential for a breakdown in discipline. It's more to do with discipline and unit cohesion than on a woman's ability to be an infantry soldier.

    There is no reason to have separate billets and/or heads/showers for gays and straights. There really wouldn't be any way to do this completely anyway. Some gays are going to want to stay in the closet, and just because they can declare they are gay doesn't mean they will have to. But the main point is that nobody does this. It isn't done in the civilian world, nor is it done in any military that already allows gays to serve openly. Gays and straights already share spaces. There is no biological difference between gays and straights of the same sex, unlike men and women who have several biological differences.
    Well, it will become a neccessity, when straight soldiers refuse to billet with gay soldiers and gay soldiers refuse to billet with straight soldiers. The living quarters situation is going to cause more hassle that, in my opinion, it's worth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

    LINK - Judge Rejects Feds’ Request to Keep Enforcing ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’
    Judge Virginia Phillips issued a tentative ruling Monday rejecting the federal government's request to stop her injunction on "don't ask, don't tell."

    Judge Phillips said, "The arguments by the government are vague" and failed to show that an injunction would harm military readiness or troop cohesion, pointing out that she ordered the military to stop kicking out gays, which doesn't prohibit them from crafting a better policy. She plans to issue her final decision about rejecting the stay early today.

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