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Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contributions

Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

The FEC has been asked for exactly that. The C of C may not have to answer for who their donors are, but they will need to prove, thru reasonable accounting practices, that foreign donations have not been used to purchase political ads.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/1/the-chamber-and-foreign-contributions/

Until the FEC completes its investigation, your demand for proof is unreasonable. Lack of proof at this point doesn't make the accusation illegitimate, since the C of C does accept donations from foreign corporations. It is the C of C that must provide proof to the FEC, NOT the Dems to you.

Regards from Rosie

Has the FEC actually launched an investigation?

Again, you go back to 'they have to prove what the Dems claimed isn't true'... instead of the more proper 'the Dem's should provide evidence for their claims'. Sad.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Barbbtx said:
Myth: The U.S. Chamber is spending foreign money on political activities. ... that labor unions and their allies far outspend business on election efforts. .... Unions - 12.4% percent of employees at foreign companies in the U.S. are ...
Myth vs. Fact: Foreign Money and Political Spending | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Are you seriously trying to vindicate the Chamber of Commerce by citing their own unsourced claims? If so, then allow me to indulge in this game myself. Fact: I am a 7-foot-tall satyr married to Scarlett Johansson. Hmm, apparently making the claim didn't make it so. Oh well.
So, you agree with me that citing unsourced claims (like the Democrats are doing in this case) and not presenting actual evidence (again, like the Democrats in this case) is a game. Nice to here.

So endeth the lesson.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Are you seriously trying to vindicate the Chamber of Commerce by citing their own unsourced claims? If so, then allow me to indulge in this game myself. Fact: I am a 7-foot-tall satyr married to Scarlett Johansson. Hmm, apparently making the claim didn't make it so. Oh well.

I think they should have the right to defend themselves against the claims of the Obama administration.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Has the FEC actually launched an investigation?

Again, you go back to 'they have to prove what the Dems claimed isn't true'... instead of the more proper 'the Dem's should provide evidence for their claims'. Sad.

They must investigate since Senator Franken has called for it. The D of J putting in their two cents is more an administrative detailing rather than a directive.

Quickly dismissive, aintcha? LOLOL

Regards from Rosie
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

so have the msm's, altho obama is so alien to american politics he obviously didn't see it coming

:lamo "So alien to American politics..." nice choice of dog-whistles, but you're apparently commenting on an alternate universe where people care what the MSM says.

time mag---over his head, insular, isolated, arrogant and clueless

They were saying pretty much the same thing during the election. Most of America's major name-brand "news" sources have become tabloid trash that ignore reality and pander to whatever narrative they think will sell.

ny times---no evidence CoC's collecting overseas dues is improper or even unusual, the afl-cio and sierra club and nra have international affiliations and take in money from foreign entities while pushing political causes in the us, more than 160 pac's set up by corporations are based overseas

In other words, the accusation that foreign contributions are a "baseless lie" is complete nonsense.

where ya been, the WHITE HOUSE and the DEMOCRATIC NATL COMMITTEE are doing quite a bit more about this nefarious use of foreign money by the chamber of commerce to "steal our democracy" than the mere asking of questions

Good.

is that all ya got?

Is what all I've got?

no mention of last friday's jobs report, for example?

I haven't seen it, but I don't imagine it speaks well of the Chamber's obsession with tax and spending cuts: Not very helpful to the unemployed.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

They must investigate since Senator Franken has called for it. The D of J putting in their two cents is more an administrative detailing rather than a directive.

Quickly dismissive, aintcha? LOLOL

Regards from Rosie


It should be dismissed as the silliness it is. The CoC should simply say when Obama provides that his donations for his '08 campaign didn't come from phone banks in Gaza then we will provide that our $100K out of a $200mil budget is separate.

Keep grabbin at straws libs.


j-mac
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

They must investigate since Senator Franken has called for it. The D of J putting in their two cents is more an administrative detailing rather than a directive.

Quickly dismissive, aintcha? LOLOL

Regards from Rosie

Where was I dismissive? I asked if an actual investigation had begun? Touchy? Aintcha? LOLOL

EDIT: BTW, Franken 'asked' them to investigate. They are not bound by law to do so.
 
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Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

I think they should have the right to defend themselves against the claims of the Obama administration.

Irrelevant. The Chamber's claims would be easily sourced if they were legitimate, but it's not that kind of party with those people - they're not in the business of discussion. They're in the business of perpetuating ideas that serve their interests, whether true or false.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Where was I dismissive? I asked if an actual investigation had begun? Touchy? Aintcha? LOLOL

Silly man. The Chamber actually is going to have to prove the Dems' claims are untrue, thru reasonable accounting procedures. To dismiss this fact quickly and claim the opposite, that the Dems must prove what the Chamber did or did not do, jumped the gun, the shark and a buncha other things, too. :roll:

Regards from Rosie
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Irrelevant.

So the Obama administration can make any claim they wish without substance to back it up, and even if the victim of their claims tries to refute the accusation it is irrelevant? That is some nice system you got there. I suppose that wouldn't work if repubs used it on demo's though.


j-mac
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Silly man. The Chamber actually is going to have to prove the Dems' claims are untrue, thru reasonable accounting procedures. To dismiss this fact quickly and claim the opposite, that the Dems must prove what the Chamber did or did not do, jumped the gun, the shark and a buncha other things, too. :roll:

Regards from Rosie
You're really not very good at this, are you.

The FEC says that the COC must use reasonable accounting procedures to prove separation of monies. It does NOT say they must do so at the whim of the Democratic party. If the FEC decides to investigate, then the COC must indeed use reasonable accounting procedures to prove separation of monies.

If the Dems want to make accusations, they certainly SHOULD provide proof of their claims. If you disagree with that, then I should be able to claim you are really a hermaphrodite, because I don't need to prove my accusation... according to you, anyway.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Silly man. The Chamber actually is going to have to prove the Dems' claims are untrue, thru reasonable accounting procedures. To dismiss this fact quickly and claim the opposite, that the Dems must prove what the Chamber did or did not do, jumped the gun, the shark and a buncha other things, too. :roll:

Regards from Rosie


Fail!

Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or appeal to ignorance, is an informal logical fallacy; it asserts that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option: there is insufficient data and the proposition has not yet been proven to be either true or false.[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.
General forms of the argument:
P has never been disproven therefore P is/(must be) true.
P has never been proven therefore P is/(must be) false.

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have a nice day.


j-mac
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Irrelevant. The Chamber's claims would be easily sourced if they were legitimate, but it's not that kind of party with those people - they're not in the business of discussion. They're in the business of perpetuating ideas that serve their interests, whether true or false.
There is no proof of the allegations put forth by Obama.
Would you feel better if the Rep. party was receiving money from untraceable, pre-paid, reloadable credit cards like Obama did?
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

you're apparently commenting on an alternate universe where people care what the MSM says.

obama cares

They were saying pretty much the same thing during the election.

LOL!

during the 2008 presidential campaign the msm's were portraying barack hussein obama as "over his head, insular, isolated, arrogant and clueless"

absolutely

he was so clueless he sent THRILLS up their legs

there's that alternate universe, again, bizarro

I haven't seen it

you haven't seen last friday's jobs report?

the rest of america has

seeya at the polls, 3 weeks from today
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

There is no proof of the allegations put forth by Obama.

The defense of a Mafia attorney. Not "it isn't true," just "you can't prove it." And regardless of whether that's the case, we have every reason to suspect they're funded in this way, and they refuse to even verbally address it let alone open up their books. No, they're an attack-dog organization, and they prefer to be the ones going after others - they're not comfortable being in the spotlight.

Would you feel better if the Rep. party was receiving money from untraceable, pre-paid, reloadable credit cards like Obama did?

I don't even know what you're talking about. The fact is the Republican Party has unlimited support: The media gives its propaganda unlimited airplay, treats its most deranged claims, evasions, and outright lies as legitimate arguments, and perpetuates myths that serve its agenda. They don't even need to buy airtime - practically everything packaged as "news" is run through a filter to remove any "liberal bias" that might come from honest journalism. It's a miracle that a Democrat ever gets a word in edgewise with six thousand phony newspapers and radio shows all spewing the same GOP talking points. Barack Obama won a landslide victory in 2008 with half the media declaring on a daily basis that he was doomed, and the other half interpreting everything that happened as evidence that he was "in trouble." The GOP, the media, and Wall Street are a single entity.
 
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Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

The defense of a Mafia attorney. Not "it isn't true," just "you can't prove it." And regardless of whether that's the case, we have every reason to suspect they're funded in this way, and they refuse to even verbally address it let alone open up their books. No, they're an attack-dog organization, and they prefer to be the ones going after others - they're not comfortable being in the spotlight.



I don't even know what you're talking about. The fact is the Republican Party has unlimited support: The media gives its propaganda unlimited airplay, treats its most deranged claims, evasions, and outright lies as legitimate arguments, and perpetuates myths that serve its agenda. They don't even need to buy airtime - practically everything packaged as "news" is run through a filter to remove any "liberal bias" that might come from honest journalism. It's a miracle that a Democrat ever gets a word in edgewise with six thousand phony newspapers and radio shows all spewing the same GOP talking points. Barack Obama won a landslide victory in 2008 with half the media declaring on a daily basis that he was doomed, and the other half interpreting everything that happened as evidence that he was "in trouble." The GOP, the media, and Wall Street are a single entity.


Could you give us a list of the "GOP media" Please?


j-mac
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Could you give us a list of the "GOP media" Please?


j-mac

The list is so long, it'll take him a while to get it together.
Oh wait.... I have it right here.
Fox News and talk radio.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

So the Obama administration can make any claim they wish without substance to back it up, and even if the victim of their claims tries to refute the accusation it is irrelevant? That is some nice system you got there. I suppose that wouldn't work if repubs used it on demo's though.


j-mac

Same rules of evidence applies across the board.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

I don't even know what you're talking about. The fact is the Republican Party has unlimited support: The media gives its propaganda unlimited airplay, treats its most deranged claims, evasions, and outright lies as legitimate arguments, and perpetuates myths that serve its agenda. They don't even need to buy airtime - practically everything packaged as "news" is run through a filter to remove any "liberal bias" that might come from honest journalism. It's a miracle that a Democrat ever gets a word in edgewise with six thousand phony newspapers and radio shows all spewing the same GOP talking points. Barack Obama won a landslide victory in 2008 with half the media declaring on a daily basis that he was doomed, and the other half interpreting everything that happened as evidence that he was "in trouble." The GOP, the media, and Wall Street are a single entity.
You're actually claiming that the majority of mass media has a conservative bias?

You think that 100% of the mass media was against Obama during the 2008 elections?

You have GOT to be kidding. No way this guy is for real.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

the chamber of commerce represents american business interests coast to coast, in every city, county and municipality in each of our 50 states

the white house and the dnc are accusing the legitimate voice of millions of american business owners of criminal activity based on nothing more than "it appears" and "i can assert anything i want, bob"

this entire smear originated with JOHN PODESTA's center for american progress which, like the afl-cio, the sierra club, move on and 100's of other special interest lobbyists, take themselves foreign money and refuse themselves to disclose their donors

that the white house would LIFT a talking point from podesta's pac and try to center its 2010 congressional campaign on it is sign certain of a political party in desperate need of changing the subject from the dire concerns of the american people in times like these---jobs, the economy, taxes, spending and debt

when nixon threatened to use the irs to go after HIS domestic opposition all those right wing msm's worked themselves up into the kind of lather they reserved for ellsburg's release of the pentagon papers

"it appears" the coc is using foreign money to "steal our democracy," runs the ad produced and paid for by the dnc, national headquarters of the party in power

it is what it is

let axelrod and biden blow obama's smoke about nothing

let moveon and podesta's pac open THEIR books

let cbs, time, the nyt, wapo and politico LOL! over this over-its-head white house, isolated, insular, arrogant and clueless

let the chamber and the national and local republicans talk about all that matters to the people---employment, opportunities, taxes (scheduled to go up by a whopper on jan 1), OBAMA'S WAR, the borders, the busted and bankrupt budget...

and america will reach its collective verdict on november 2

good luck
 
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Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

A pack of corporations anonymously ganging up on American democracy does not strike me as "political opposition" so much as an attempt to buy election outcomes, but for the moment it's true to say we don't know where their funding comes from. It is also true to say that campaign finance law as corrupted by the ironically-labeled "Citizens United" Supreme Court decision would permit them to accept unlimited amounts of money from foreign sources for the purpose of waging crazed smear campaigns against Democrats.

So what do you think of the secret donations given to the Obama campaign in 2008?

Obama Accepting Untraceable Donations
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

So what do you think of the secret donations given to the Obama campaign in 2008?

Obama Accepting Untraceable Donations

you can't go by that, silly

wapo is wingnut, everyone knows that

why EZRA KLEIN was the founder of JOURNOLIST, and we all know those professional leftists in need of drug testing take their marching orders straight from SARAH PALIN herself!

woodward and beck---they're pretty much UNDISTINGUISHABLE

LOL!
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

So what do you think of the secret donations given to the Obama campaign in 2008?

Obama Accepting Untraceable Donations

You're referring to donations made using pre-paid debit cards here. From the linked article:

Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign is allowing donors to use largely untraceable prepaid credit cards that could potentially be used to evade limits on how much an individual is legally allowed to give or to mask a contributor's identity, campaign officials confirmed.

Faced with a huge influx of donations over the Internet, the campaign has also chosen not to use basic security measures to prevent potentially illegal or anonymous contributions from flowing into its accounts, aides acknowledged. Instead, the campaign is scrutinizing its books for improper donations after the money has been deposited.

The Obama organization said its extensive review has ensured that the campaign has refunded any improper contributions, and noted that Federal Election Commission rules do not require front-end screening of donations.

.....

Lawyers for the Obama operation said yesterday that their "extensive back-end review" has carefully scrubbed contributions to prevent illegal money from entering the operation's war chest.

...

Juan Proaño, whose technology firm handled online contributions for John Edwards's presidential primary campaign, and for John F. Kerry's presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee in 2004, said it is possible to require donors' names and addresses to match those on their credit card accounts. But, he said, some campaigns are reluctant to impose that extra layer of security.

...

Election lawyer Brett Kappel said the FEC has never grappled with the question of cash cards. "The whole system is set up for them to accept the payment, then determine whether it is legal or not. And if it's not, send it back. That's what the statute requires," he said.

Questionable contributions to political campaigns happen all the time. You hope that the candidate is honest, uses the proper security checks and return any and all questionable contributions promptly. And by all accounts, Obama's campaign committee returned the funds once the error was "reported". Of course, we can reasonably assume that had the error not been reported, his campaign would have retained the funds. But honestly, what campaign wouldn't? The issue in this case, however, was that under campaign rules contributions from private citizens have a maximum limit, and apparently Obama's campaign committe allowed a donor to go over the limit. Not good!

In the case where the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (USCoC) is concerned, you don't know if the corporation that makes contributions are foreign or domestic. This is what the Tillman Act (upheld by the Supreme Court under both Austion v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce and McConnell v FED). This article from the New York Book Review entitled, "The Decision that Threatens Democracy," by Ronald Dworkin dated May 13, 2010, details how the five Conservative SC Justices undermined the Tillman Act and the pitfalls for allowing corporations to make campaign contributions that pay for TV ads for either a specific political candidate or a political party.

I'll leave it you readers to determine the constitutionality of this "freedom of speech" encroachment.
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Let me get this straight. Obama didn't have any actual evidence that the chamber of commerce took illegal donations? He figured that he would say it and since he's The Messiah it would automatically be accepted as the gospel?

How embarrassing is it to be a Liberal nowadays?

Bob Shieffer: "is this really all you got?"
 
Re: Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contribution

Try "almost certainly is."
And you have what as proof, besides your own personal opinion? Please share your evidence.


The Chamber of Commerce sure seems to be, now that people are asking questions.
Really? Scared? How so? They've publicly denied the accusations, not hid from the issue. How exactly are they 'scared'?


Let me understand this: A factually correct statement is a "conspiracy theory" because you find the terminology morally judgmental?
This is your 'factual statement'...
A pack of corporations anonymously ganging up on American democracy
Again, as no one has offered proof, it is hardly factual. In fact, I'm not sure you've made a factual statement since you began posting here.

A corporation is just a tool, and it has legitimate uses. But organizations like the Chamber of Commerce represent people who abuse corporations to undermine the civic foundations of this country.
Every word you utter proves more and more how much a complete partisan hack you are.

They seem ethical enough to piss off the Chamber of Commerce.
That, like most of your other posts, makes no sense what so ever.


Who is "us"?
the entire board.
 
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