Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 53

Thread: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

  1. #21
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Once again, you come out and support the thugs in Beijing. Their reaction is quite sensible?!?!? His wife is now under de facto house arrest and they are using this as an excuse to further harass dissidents in the country who do little more than call for the exercise of rights that are written in the PRC constitution, not to mention stepped up harassment of human rights lawyers in the country.

    Makes sense?!?!? Yeah, only to those who support totalitarian thugs.
    What I am calling sensible is feeling this is a slight by Norway because ultimately it is a slight from an institution appointed by Norway's parliament. As far as the wife they are ultimately trying to keep her from using the prize to posture. I agree they should not be keeping her from speaking, but ultimately they are really just trying to keep her from doing some public stunt they feel will incite more public stunts and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Please tell me you are kidding. China always threatens and blusters when anyone does something they don't like. So, the Nobel committee awards someone who has received international recognition for his work against the tyrants in Beijing. Yeah, it is an understandable response -- the response of tyrants. It is sad that some like yourself have been so duped into supporting those tyrants that you consistantly defend them on this board.
    Anyone who says the yellow people should be more like the white people wins international recognition for their works when it comes to China. His ideas demonstrate no originality or provide any basis for real concrete progress. Basically it is the typical "China should adopt the exact same system that the white people made" nonsense. It is also laced with many comment denigrating China's government and honestly denigrating China itself. Personally, I think that is why they had him arrested. These dissidents who get arrested typically do not keep cool and reasonable. When people who do keep cool and reasonable publicly criticize the government they tend not to get arrested.

    Liu Xiabo is not Nelson Mandela. Sure not everyone can be, but it is not like this was as close as they could get.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    He has been an advocate for peaceful change in China. The human rights situation in the country is atrocious. Liu and those like him deserve to be recognized for the work they are doing to bring change to one of the world's worst regimes.
    Many do such work without getting arrested and many of those same people actually get stuff done rather than just giving out bland criticisms that any one halfway informed on political science could make. Of course, if they gave it to someone who was not in prison they would have to acknowledge that there are dissidents who criticize the government and are not suppressed. That is what annoys me here. It is all about perpetuating a distorted image of China that demonizes them.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  2. #22
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,056

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Relevance? Once again, you prove you have no capacity for debate...
    They were nutty until they gave it to somebody you approved of. Once again, proving your ridiculous bias against anything Chinese.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    I think this peace prize is more well deserved than when they gave it to Obama. That was pretty awful.

    Liu's wife is under house arrest now and they aren't letting her talk to the media who have been flocking to her place in droves. I personally love whenever the topic of China's humanitarian crisis comes into the international limelight. It's quite disgusting. I visited Tibet and Xinjiang when I was last in China. The stuff I saw there was just... unspeakable. I will always have a love for Chinese culture and its ancient wisdom, but I will never stop hating their government. The fact that they have market support from the West shows that we are complete sell outs and that business values matter much more than our desire to spread universal human rights.

    China needs a revolution badly and I hope I am alive to see it happen. Then again, I'm sure any revolution there will prompt the U.S. to help stop it. Gotta protect business after all.

  4. #24
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    They were nutty until they gave it to somebody you approved of. Once again, proving your ridiculous bias against anything Chinese.
    My rediculous bias against anything Chinese?!!? That is why I speak nearly fluent Chinese as a fourth language AND married an ethnic-Chinese wife... yeah, biased against the Chinese...

    You know, most people on these boards are mature enough to understand that sometimes people do things that they don't agree with but other times they do. I am not one of those who knee-jerk opposes the position of a person or a group because they are on one side of the political divide or the other -- unlike a couple of radical knee-jerk types I know on these boards...
    Last edited by ludahai; 10-11-10 at 10:04 PM.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  5. #25
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I think this peace prize is more well deserved than when they gave it to Obama. That was pretty awful.

    Liu's wife is under house arrest now and they aren't letting her talk to the media who have been flocking to her place in droves. I personally love whenever the topic of China's humanitarian crisis comes into the international limelight. It's quite disgusting. I visited Tibet and Xinjiang when I was last in China. The stuff I saw there was just... unspeakable. I will always have a love for Chinese culture and its ancient wisdom, but I will never stop hating their government. The fact that they have market support from the West shows that we are complete sell outs and that business values matter much more than our desire to spread universal human rights.

    China needs a revolution badly and I hope I am alive to see it happen. Then again, I'm sure any revolution there will prompt the U.S. to help stop it. Gotta protect business after all.
    A revolution would be the worse thing to happen. People hail the fall of the Soviet Union like it was a wonderful step forward, but it was probably one of the worse outcomes. You guys who wax poetic about some romantic notion of the corrupt tyrannical regime falling under a sea of flowers, presuming you do not prefer a sea of blood, and people in China like Liu Xiabo who feed into that with their empty demands and anti-Chinese rhetoric only make the chances of that sea of blood higher.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  6. #26
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    A revolution would be the worse thing to happen. People hail the fall of the Soviet Union like it was a wonderful step forward, but it was probably one of the worse outcomes. You guys who wax poetic about some romantic notion of the corrupt tyrannical regime falling under a sea of flowers, presuming you do not prefer a sea of blood, and people in China like Liu Xiabo who feed into that with their empty demands and anti-Chinese rhetoric only make the chances of that sea of blood higher.
    You presume that I know nothing about Chinese history. Not only am I very familiar with the Tang Dynasty onward, I have lived in China and I speak the language. Every transitional era in Chinese history has been paid for with the blood of millions. I am in no way suggesting that a future revolution would happen under a "sea of flowers"; I think the Chinese people are well aware that if they want democracy, it is not going to be an easy battle. They are accepting the status quo right now because the Communists are providing development and prosperity. The second that goes away, there will be widescale rebellion. There are already riots in the countryside now in epic proportions because the poor are getting extremely poor, and are not being made part of the new prosperity seen in the cities.

    The only thing keeping the Communists in power right now is a relatively stable and growing middle class. If that ever ends, the regime is doomed.

  7. #27
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    You presume that I know nothing about Chinese history. Not only am I very familiar with the Tang Dynasty onward, I have lived in China and I speak the language. Every transitional era in Chinese history has been paid for with the blood of millions. I am in no way suggesting that a future revolution would happen under a "sea of flowers"; I think the Chinese people are well aware that if they want democracy, it is not going to be an easy battle. They are accepting the status quo right now because the Communists are providing development and prosperity. The second that goes away, there will be widescale rebellion. There are already riots in the countryside now in epic proportions because the poor are getting extremely poor, and are not being made part of the new prosperity seen in the cities.

    The only thing keeping the Communists in power right now is a relatively stable and growing middle class. If that ever ends, the regime is doomed.
    But you don't understand --- people like him, who don't speak Mandarin and can't read Chinese understand China and the Chinese better than those of us who do...
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  8. #28
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    A revolution would be the worse thing to happen. People hail the fall of the Soviet Union like it was a wonderful step forward, but it was probably one of the worse outcomes. You guys who wax poetic about some romantic notion of the corrupt tyrannical regime falling under a sea of flowers, presuming you do not prefer a sea of blood, and people in China like Liu Xiabo who feed into that with their empty demands and anti-Chinese rhetoric only make the chances of that sea of blood higher.
    The only anti-Chinese rhetoric is see is from those who think that the Chinese and other Eastern peoples can't handle openness, human rights, and democracy... That is racist, not those of us who support the aspirations of the Chinese people.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  9. #29
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    You presume that I know nothing about Chinese history. Not only am I very familiar with the Tang Dynasty onward, I have lived in China and I speak the language. Every transitional era in Chinese history has been paid for with the blood of millions. I am in no way suggesting that a future revolution would happen under a "sea of flowers"; I think the Chinese people are well aware that if they want democracy, it is not going to be an easy battle. They are accepting the status quo right now because the Communists are providing development and prosperity. The second that goes away, there will be widescale rebellion. There are already riots in the countryside now in epic proportions because the poor are getting extremely poor, and are not being made part of the new prosperity seen in the cities.

    The only thing keeping the Communists in power right now is a relatively stable and growing middle class. If that ever ends, the regime is doomed.
    I think the problem here is you do not really understand China, despite everything you say. Living there does not give you some unique insight because ultimately you cannot know the inner workings of the government or about every incident in the country and how it is dealt with simply by living there.

    You think China is like Poland and that idea is ultimately rooted in the ill-conceived notion that China is some centralized dictatorship. Also it requires you to believe the groups against China's current government are benign. People making reckless proclamations like this, Xiabo has himself made some reckless proclamations, do no service to their supposed cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The only anti-Chinese rhetoric is see is from those who think that the Chinese and other Eastern peoples can't handle openness, human rights, and democracy... That is racist, not those of us who support the aspirations of the Chinese people.
    This seems to be the usual response, but I think your response only goes to prove my point. I say China should not adopt the West's system (i.e. the system white people made) and you immediately assume I am saying China should not have democracy and human rights. What is implied by your comment is that human rights, openness, and democracy are white European concepts with no basis in Chinese culture. This is in fact the same drivel we find in the Charter '08 Xiabo was involved in drafting and the alleged reason he was imprisoned. You call what I said racist, but your comments are reminiscent of the ideas espoused by someone else I have talked about this with who blatantly said that it was Europeans (white people) who invented the idea of freedom.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  10. #30
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    This seems to be the usual response, but I think your response only goes to prove my point. I say China should not adopt the West's system (i.e. the system white people made) and you immediately assume I am saying China should not have democracy and human rights. What is implied by your comment is that human rights, openness, and democracy are white European concepts with no basis in Chinese culture. This is in fact the same drivel we find in the Charter '08 Xiabo was involved in drafting and the alleged reason he was imprisoned. You call what I said racist, but your comments are reminiscent of the ideas espoused by someone else I have talked about this with who blatantly said that it was Europeans (white people) who invented the idea of freedom.
    The West didn't have a history of democracy either, until it decided to be democratic. I am not saying that China should take on Western-style systems, but let's face the facts: China is part of a globalized world. It is completely interfacing with western nations economically. It is inviting scores of foreigners to come to its doorstep to teach their people English; it wants foreign business, and thus it caves to foreign customs. The young people there are increasingly curious about the outside. Does modernization have to equal westernization? The jury is still out on that one. I don't think though that just because China would seek a democratic system that it is caving to foreign culture. Democracy is just a way of doing things. The west didn't invent it, it just popularized it.

    You also forget (or maybe you didn't know) that during the KMT era, elections were held. It was mostly for the rich to vote in China, and men, but that kind of proto-democracy was the way we originally did it before the system evolved.

    I frankly don't get what your beef is. You seem to just be arguing for the sake of arguing, and making up points that I never even said.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •