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Thread: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Full-time bullies should be removed from the schooling environment so that they can get help and psychological assessment. I'm not talking about petty teasing here, which everyone does at some point in school. I'm talking about the extreme cases.

    People are not driven to suicide for no reason. It is not easy to come to that conclusion or to commit the act. The amount of suffering must have been overwhelming in order for it to override the will to live and survive. The other thing I'm wondering though is where are the coping resources of these children? Most suicides happen because suffering outweighs resources of support. Were the parents oblivious or unhelpful? Was the school turning a blind eye to pleas for help?

    I was bullied pretty bad in grade 8. I'm over it now, but it mostly left a bitter taste in my mouth about the education system. I was bullied openly and in front of teachers. In fact, some teachers even took part. I'd imagine that in cases where bullying drives a person to suicide, you are looking at schools with teachers that are overworked and thus can't have time to care, they don't care or don't know how to adequately deal with it, or they are actively taking part.

    Children should not be slipping through the cracks and dying because of bullying in the year 2010. Zero tolerance should mean zero tolerance. Remove the bullies, not the victims.

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Full-time bullies should be removed from the schooling environment so that they can get help and psychological assessment. I'm not talking about petty teasing here, which everyone does at some point in school. I'm talking about the extreme cases.

    People are not driven to suicide for no reason. It is not easy to come to that conclusion or to commit the act. The amount of suffering must have been overwhelming in order for it to override the will to live and survive. The other thing I'm wondering though is where are the coping resources of these children? Most suicides happen because suffering outweighs resources of support. Were the parents oblivious or unhelpful? Was the school turning a blind eye to pleas for help?

    I was bullied pretty bad in grade 8. I'm over it now, but it mostly left a bitter taste in my mouth about the education system. I was bullied openly and in front of teachers. In fact, some teachers even took part. I'd imagine that in cases where bullying drives a person to suicide, you are looking at schools with teachers that are overworked and thus can't have time to care, they don't care or don't know how to adequately deal with it, or they are actively taking part.

    Children should not be slipping through the cracks and dying because of bullying in the year 2010. Zero tolerance should mean zero tolerance. Remove the bullies, not the victims.


    Is calling someone a slut, throwing food at them, disseminating text pictures of their boobs that they took themselves, or writing on a social networking site that they are a whore really "bullying"?

    If the "victim" feels fine about herself and what she's done in the past, what she's doing at present, and what she plans to do in the future, is she truly a "victim" at all?
    The people doing it are obviously threatened by the victim and her behavior because they are insecure about their own sexuality. All the so-called "victim" has to do is turn that back around on them. Or merely ignore them, and watch with amused satisfaction as they wallow in their own insecurity.

    We need a society which accepts and supports every aspect of young people, including their sexuality, which is an undeniable part of who each and every one of them is.
    We had that at one time (late 60s through early 90s).
    Now we've somehow regressed back to the 1950s again, at least as far as our collective attitude toward female sexuality is concerned.

    When we as a culture return to a more reasonable attitude toward our young women, they will cease hanging themselves in closets.
    Until then, nothing is likely to halt such tragedies, which seem to happen every week now, and inevitably occur because some young woman attempted to utilize her sexuality in some way (whether to attract the attention of a guy she liked, or to bond an existing relationship with one), and other young women (and young men, in some cases) felt threatened by that, and decided to respond to the perceived threat by attacking the young woman in question for daring to be overtly sexual.

    All of the people involved in this equation are dysfunctional, because of our current social climate- both the bullies, who perceive a classmate's sexuality as a threat, and the victim herself, who perceives her own sexuality as something so shameful that she ought to end her life, just because her peers tell her that it is.

    Let's get back to a healthier attitude, people, seriously.
    Does your own child have to die, before you can see how harmful and damaging sexual repressive societies are to females?

    And don't even get me started on all the gay male teens who are committing suicide these days because of this exact same dynamic (substitute "fag" for "slut" and the bullying follows the exact same trajectory).

    Sexually repressive societies are UNHEALTHY FOR EVERYONE.
    Last edited by 1069; 10-09-10 at 02:17 PM.

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, you speak of this as though it is some grand experiment going on to measure the tolerance of our children. As any adult would have legal recourse against individuals who constantly stalked, and harassed them under any number of laws, why are our children not protected the same way? Are the administrators, and teachers that incompetent?
    You must be reading a different post... or interpreting it based on your own biases. That's not what I'm saying at all.

    Our school system should not be a social experiment for the liberal elite that run the education system.
    More absurdity, j-mac? Not surprising. This is not a partisan issue... at least not to anyone that is not partisan... hint, hint. Probably the most important thing that kids learn in school is effective socialization. People get bullied. Learning effective ways to deal with it, be that getting help or doing something productive, is a skill that benefits everyone.
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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'll never cease to be blown away at how Liberals get all hyped over stuff like this, yet they are the world's worst at ridiculing those who are different than they are. Trully amazing.
    It never ceases to amaze me how hacks seem to believe that everything that is discussed becomes an "I hate the other guys" issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Look around and if don't see where young people learn BULLYING you're blind.

    It happens in the so-called news every night with people the likes of O'bermann, Mathews and Ed Schultz spewing hate ans name calling.

    I see it here in this forum all the time, from people claiming to be good solid American and yet they personally attack others because they have a different viewpoint.

    I try to limit my attacks to those who have attacked me and then only try to call into question their clearly limited general knowledge and literary abilities.

    Parents I am sad to report have become poor roll models where there are parents even present, what with having to hold down two jobs, either mom, dad or both doing or having done time, or ran off with drug freak.



    Just look at Obama "A roll model?" Hell no he's a damn coke freak, and that is no Winston he's token either.

    Children have some things much better than we has them but the pressure they have can bee must than when everything was a little slower and less rushed.

    The hateful little punks that bullied this young lady need a good old fashion trip to the wood shed.

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    From the news story in the OP Meredith is one of the girls - and her brother committed suicide later, other brother overdosed (possible suicide) and the mother was on antidepressants - no mention of the father - Mom's still living but likely in the dumps, herself.

    Yet the author of the article seems to try to connect all these suicides with the school-bullying. I agree with her mother, though, and I think the bullying in her particular situation was menial compared to the harm that came from her own broken family.

    Per sexuality - I think teens these days are *so* confused. On one hand they have their families, friends, media telling them "come out - it's ok" - but at the same time the opposition to it from these same sources tells them that "it's not OK"

    I imagine that in that situation there's just no way to actually figure out *what* to do - no matter what you do you'll be noticed, some will disapprove, and others will encourage your behavior no matter what it is.
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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post

    Just look at Obama "A roll model?" Hell no he's a damn coke freak, and that is no Winston he's token either.
    Awww... Barry.


    The hateful little punks that bullied this young lady need a good old fashion trip to the wood shed.

    The "hateful little punks" that bullied most of the aforementioned suicide victims (Phoebe Prince, Hope Witsell, Jessica Logan, I'm going to include Victoria Lindsay too, even though she wasn't a suicide) were the "good girls" in school.
    That was their place in the social hierarchy. They were popular, athletic girls who got good grades, didn't have sex, organized school social events, followed the rules, and did everything conventional society hopes its teenage daughters will do.
    They are plain, stocky girls, dull and uninspired and bland as day-old oatmeal, who are *popular* by virtue of having been at the school or in the school system for a long time and knowing everyone, belonging to sports teams, being involved in extracurricular activities and social clubs, having a well-established clique of like-minded friends, both male and female. By junior and senior year, they are collectively serving as the unofficial arbiter of who is and is not socially and morally acceptable, among the student body.

    When some saucy little vixen with a touch of the exotic (say, Phoebe Prince, or Tori Lindsay, or Sladjana Vidovic) comes traipsing along deliberately attracting male attention, of course the school's moral majority, in the form of this popular, well respected good-girl clique, is going to feel ethically obligated to put a stop to it. After all, she's upsetting the established order of things. Worse, she's making them look and feel positively bovine by comparison.

    It happens on a daily basis, and in cases where the "victim" in question doesn't kill herself, most of you would probably side with the so-called "bullies". They represent the conservative status quo.

    How many of you really think it was okay for Phoebe Prince, a 15-year-old Irish immigrant, to enroll in a suburban Massachusetts high school and within two months, sleep with two of the more popular guys in school?
    How many of you think it was okay for 18-year-old Jessica Logan to text nude pictures of herself to a fellow high school student, age 17?
    Or for Hope Witsell, only 13, to send photos of her breasts to a classmate she liked, who wasn't even her boyfriend?

    If these girls weren't dead, you probably wouldn't want your daughters associating with them.
    You'd probably prefer your that daughters hang around with the respectable, wholesome, well-scrubbed, potato-faced "bullies"- the Flannery Mullins, Kayla Nareys, and Ashley Longes, the Mercades Nichols, Brittini Hardcastles and Kayla Hassells of the world- who spend their days practicing abstinence, playing on the soccer team, and organizing charity car washes for the school band.... and of course, combating the threat presented to their school communities by free-spirited "sluts" and "whores".

    Sladjana Vidovic is dead, allegedly, because a group of classmates at Mentor High School "mocked her accent, taunted her with insults like "Slutty Jana" and threw food at her".

    Is this case significantly different, in any way, from any of the aforementioned cases?
    Will next week's case be any different, really?
    Last edited by 1069; 10-09-10 at 05:22 PM.

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Is calling someone a slut, throwing food at them, disseminating text pictures of their boobs that they took themselves, or writing on a social networking site that they are a whore really "bullying"?
    Absolutely. That definitely falls into the category of harassment, which is a form of bullying. If it were my child, I'd collect evidence that this was occurring, take it first to the bully's parents, and if they refused to act, I'd take it to law enforcement.

    At the least, posting pictures of a minor's breasts is considered dissemination of child pornography. That's a felony. In some states, this would fall under stalking statutes; in others, it would fall under the category of harassment. Both are illegal.

    Harassment

    As for your other comments, while I understand your point, your generalizing is ridiculous. My child is pretty conservative, but she has several friends who've experienced severe bullying for a variety of reasons. One girl was persuaded by her boyfriend to cut herself (naked) and let him watch. She did so, he took pictures, and then disseminated them on 4chan.org. I would estimate that 75% of the school ended up seeing them.

    Her persecution went on both online and offline at school. It was brutal. Her parents are good friends of ours, and this girl has been in my house countless times since kindergarten. She and my daughter were best friends through most of elementary and middle school.

    Telling a girl at that age that she should own her sexuality and feel okay with it, when she's been victimized in that way, is simply not workable.

    I wish the parents would get her into therapy, but they refuse to.

    Frankly, if the girl DID have any kind of emotional stability, this scenario wouldn't have occurred. Same with a 13-year-old girl who is sending tit shots to a boy. That's a girl who has issues going on, and needs help. That is not normal, healthy sexuality.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 10-09-10 at 06:14 PM.

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Full-time bullies should be removed from the schooling environment so that they can get help and psychological assessment. I'm not talking about petty teasing here, which everyone does at some point in school. I'm talking about the extreme cases.

    People are not driven to suicide for no reason. It is not easy to come to that conclusion or to commit the act. The amount of suffering must have been overwhelming in order for it to override the will to live and survive. The other thing I'm wondering though is where are the coping resources of these children? Most suicides happen because suffering outweighs resources of support. Were the parents oblivious or unhelpful? Was the school turning a blind eye to pleas for help?

    I was bullied pretty bad in grade 8. I'm over it now, but it mostly left a bitter taste in my mouth about the education system. I was bullied openly and in front of teachers. In fact, some teachers even took part. I'd imagine that in cases where bullying drives a person to suicide, you are looking at schools with teachers that are overworked and thus can't have time to care, they don't care or don't know how to adequately deal with it, or they are actively taking part.

    Children should not be slipping through the cracks and dying because of bullying in the year 2010. Zero tolerance should mean zero tolerance. Remove the bullies, not the victims.
    Bullies need to get their asses kicked. Either by the teachers, or by the students they picking on. Bullies are weak and they try to hide that weakness by praying on weaker kids. When they discover that the kids they're picking aren't all that weak, they usually back off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me how hacks seem to believe that everything that is discussed becomes an "I hate the other guys" issue.
    Good for you. Funny how you onyl say that certain people on this forum, when everyone--including yourself--has been guilty of it at some time, or another. But, you're a mod and the rules apply differently to you.

    But, hey, look on the bright side. At least these kids didn't show up at the school house with an AR-15 and a handfull of 30-round magazines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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