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Thread: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What you call profits can also be called RESERVES.

    Insurance companies have to have actual money to pay actual claims. They have to be prepared for a rainy day, which is what the concept of insurance is in the first place.

    I realize, in the liberal stimulus world, you don't actually have to HAVE money to spend trillions of it. But in the insurance world, you can't pay claims with money you don't have.
    Don't make too many leaps. I've made no argument here on this. I only gave you where the numbers are coming from. But if you call them reserves, you too should provide evidence.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    The regulations imposed by the government far outweigh the ones imposed by the insurance companies. The points I made were about how medicine is actually practiced that is imposed by the government in the form of regulations.
    Again, you should give support on this. Insurance companis also worry about cost and also put up restrictions. And without government, how do we know they wouldn't impose even more restrictions? Again, it seems to me you're making a lot of leaps.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    The regulations imposed by the government far outweigh the ones imposed by the insurance companies. The points I made were about how medicine is actually practiced that is imposed by the government in the form of regulations.
    Then perhaps we DO disagree. If one is talking about how doctors practice medicine in their offices, with their patients, then money controls the sessions; the tests prescribed; the treatment recommended.

    The fact that the government imposes regulation on medications/equipment/insurance/licensing/education has little to do with the patient's experience with his doctor. The only one is my list here that DOES have a profound effect on how a doctor practices is the insurance factor and the risk of malpractice suits.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, you should give support on this. Insurance companis also worry about cost and also put up restrictions. And without government, how do we know they wouldn't impose even more restrictions? Again, it seems to me you're making a lot of leaps.
    I have only history to go by and historically the insurance companies acted reasonably and didn't prohibit people without health insurance from paying for their own medical bills. The problems started when the government interferred with the 90% income taxes in the 40's and companies having to resort to using health insurance as compensation to protect their worker's wages from income taxation. Also, since I'm a Constitutionalist *points to avatar* there is no provision in the Constitution of the United States for the federal government to mandate to the people to buy a good or face severe penalties.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 10-07-10 at 01:37 PM.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Then perhaps we DO disagree. If one is talking about how doctors practice medicine in their offices, with their patients, then money controls the sessions; the tests prescribed; the treatment recommended.

    The fact that the government imposes regulation on medications/equipment/insurance/licensing/education has little to do with the patient's experience with his doctor. The only one is my list here that DOES have a profound effect on how a doctor practices is the insurance factor and the risk of malpractice suits.
    My point is that it's not just the insurance companies at fault. It's both the government's and insurance companies fault.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I have only history to go by and historically the insurance companies acted reasonably and didn't prohibit people without health insurance from paying for their own medical bills. The problems started when the government interferred with the 90% income taxes in the 40's and companies having to resort to using health insurance as compensation to protect their worker's wages from income taxation. Also, since I'm a Constitutionalist *points to avatar* there is no provision in the Constitution of the United States for the federal government to mandate to the people to buy a good or face severe penalties.
    Really. Support this reasonableness. They have a large buracracy with tons of paper work that has always seemed deisigned to frustrate the poplace so as to not be covered when they need it, as long as we're going with our perceptions instead of documented evidence.

    I don't believe you have an accurate view of the history of health insurance. But feel free to offer some support, and they type you asked for, not opinion, but actual evidence.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    My point is that it's not just the insurance companies at fault. It's both the government's and insurance companies fault.
    This you're right about. Our problems with health care are not limited to just insurance companies. but that doesn't let insurance companies off the hook either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Really. Support this reasonableness. They have a large buracracy with tons of paper work that has always seemed deisigned to frustrate the poplace so as to not be covered when they need it, as long as we're going with our perceptions instead of documented evidence.

    I don't believe you have an accurate view of the history of health insurance. But feel free to offer some support, and they type you asked for, not opinion, but actual evidence.
    Will this, this, and this suffice?

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Will this, this, and this suffice?
    They don't support your claim. For example, the largest change wasn't the government. See:


    As the twentieth century progressed, several changes occurred that tended to increase the role that medicine played in people's lives and to shift the focus of treatment of acute illness from homes to hospitals. These changes caused the price of medical care to rise as demand for medical care increased and the cost of supplying medical care rose with increased standards of quality for physicians and hospitals.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They don't support your claim. For example, the largest change wasn't the government. See:


    As the twentieth century progressed, several changes occurred that tended to increase the role that medicine played in people's lives and to shift the focus of treatment of acute illness from homes to hospitals. These changes caused the price of medical care to rise as demand for medical care increased and the cost of supplying medical care rose with increased standards of quality for physicians and hospitals.
    You missed the part where all three stated that due to the 90% income tax rate that companies offered health insurance as a way to get past the income tax in the 40's. The government agreed. I said nothing about the changes in treatment from homes to hospitals. You are ascribing something to me that I did not say.

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