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Thread: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

  1. #51
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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Doesn't wash since car insurance companies are allowed to compete across state lines and car insurance premiums are quite low per person. The government controls were put into place in order to dictate the price of goods and services in health care. Of course, doing this caused health care providers to commit fraud in order to earn the money that they should have originally. I want you to provide proof that insurance companies have huge profits, so I want a source.
    PolitiFact | One health insurance company turned a profit, but not a record

    Now, before you say that the source says that insurance comapnies are not making a profit, remember it is simply stating that they are not making record profits and base this on the economic downturn that started in 2008.

    Of these companies, only UnitedHealth has announced its second quarter earnings. Coventry Health Care is set to announce earnings on July 28; Aetna and WellPoint on July 29; Cigna on July 30 and Humana on Aug. 3.

    Still, UnitedHealth did make healthy profits, and we asked Steve Shubitz, a health care financial analyst with the investment firm Edward Jones, about it.

    "The profits are still significant, there's no question about that. But the reality is they're losing a lot of customers in this economy," Shubitz said.
    When companies lay off workers and the workers lose their health insurance, the insurance companies lose customers, and that's why UnitedHealth has seen declining enrollments, he added.
    Thus, if you read the article, companies were making "record profits," prior to the economic downturn and the loss of employment that has cut the number of insured.

  2. #52
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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    So let me get this straight.

    Obama said I can keep my current insurance, but now I can't if I work for 3M, but I'm going to HAVE to buy it, or I'll be penalized in my taxes. And the cost that was going to go down, is actually going up, and in the end, I'm going to be entirely dependent on the bureaucracy of federal government to provide healthcare for my kids.

    Did I miss something?

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    The government controls were put into place in order to dictate the price of goods and services in health care. Of course, doing this caused health care providers to commit fraud in order to earn the money that they should have originally.
    And to this point Patriot, go and actually talk to any doctor and ask them who dictates how they practice medicine and they will tell you "The insurance companies." I know many physicians as personal friends and they all same the same.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    Obama said I can keep my current insurance, but now I can't if I work for 3M, but I'm going to HAVE to buy it, or I'll be penalized in my taxes. And the cost that was going to go down, is actually going up, and in the end, I'm going to be entirely dependent on the bureaucracy of federal government to provide healthcare for my kids.

    Did I miss something?
    Wrong, if you work for 3M you can keep your insurance, you just will not if you are no longer an employee there.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    It slows the rate of increase that exists only to feed greed. I do not argue that capitalism is bad, but I do argue that capitalism should never come before human life.
    Obviously, it doesn't slow the rate of increase.

    I would be quicker to argue that putting politics ahead of human life is even worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    This reform is really evil. business were doing this before reform, so decades ago, they must have known this was coming and got an early start.

    These people report that 44,230 people a week were losing insurance before reform (though I think they were including unemployment in the equation).

    And that premiums rose from 5,791 in 1999 to 12,680 in 2008. That had to be Obama's fault. They knew what was coming, right?

    Powered by Google Docs

    Private Pension Plans And Retirement Funds

    This report in 2003 predicted losses for retirees:

    http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi...f.w3.334v1.pdf

    And in the late 90's:

    As older workers' insurance becomes more expensive and the government's Medicare program continues to be the secondary payer in the presence of employer health insurance for older workers, firms may try to maintain incentives for early retirement and reduce the scope of health insurance coverage for their retirees. A recent survey by Hewitt Associates (1997), using a constant sample of approximately 600 large firms, found that firms' health insurance coverage for retirees declined from 92 percent to 87 percent between 1991 and 1996. The proportion of firms requiring pre-65 retirees to pay a premium increased from 85 percent to 95 percent in the same period (72 percent to 88 percent for post-65 retirees). Firms also have tightened the requirements to access postretirement health care coverage by imposing increases in age and service requirements.

    (snip)

    For example, discouraging retiree health insurance may decrease the incentive for early retirement, but it will also decrease the access to adequate health care for those workers who have to leave an employer before age 65, for whatever reason.

    Incentives for Early Retirement in Private Pension and Health Insurance Plans

    And if you're interested, you might read this take on today:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/06/bu...t.html?_r=1&hp

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obviously, it doesn't slow the rate of increase.

    I would be quicker to argue that putting politics ahead of human life is even worse.
    How is wanting everyone to be able to recieve medical treatment putting politics first?

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Boo, from the NYT's piece, this is my favorite line!

    But should the litmus test for American health care really be better than nothing?

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Boo, from the NYT's piece, this is my favorite line!
    I liked that as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    PolitiFact | One health insurance company turned a profit, but not a record

    Now, before you say that the source says that insurance comapnies are not making a profit, remember it is simply stating that they are not making record profits and base this on the economic downturn that started in 2008.



    Thus, if you read the article, companies were making "record profits," prior to the economic downturn and the loss of employment that has cut the number of insured.
    I see no data in this opinion piece to back up your statements that they made record profits. I want the numbers not an opinion piece.

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