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Thread: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    First of all, please read what I say, not attach your own meaning to it. I said that premiums will stop going up for nefarious reasons. Second, how is it that competition is reduced? Have any insurance companies closed down recently? If anything cost should be reduced because there will be more people to spread the cost over.

    When the President said that you can keep your employer based insurance, I should think he meant for those who were currently employed, or paying for their own plans. Expecting companies to continually cover people for life, even as the cost of insurance goes-up is ludicrous.

    Finally, I simply do not understand people who defend the current system when the US is one of the lowest nations in life-expectancy, infant mortality, and many other areas of healthcare when compared to other nations such as Japan, that possess universal healthcare completely ran by the government. Do we want poor healthcare overall for a high price so that a minority of rich can have the best while everyone else gets some of the worst, and we can call it "market-driven?"
    Our system is the result of government interference into the lives of the people to begin with. You want the government to be even more involved when it has shown, historically, that it mucks things up?

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    If anyone thought the insurance companies weren't at critical mass and were going to change things anyway I would have to find that naive. There were changes a'comin' due to all the baby boomers. Insurance companies have been predatory commodity traders for too long. It is time to shift the paradigm. Making the obscene profits by Healthcare CEO's is unacceptable. They make 100's time more than the physicians and staff who are doing the work. Pre DRG physicians took their eye off the ball (too much golf, vacation, trading on stock market, etc.) and insurance companies and some crafty attoneys swooped in and stole the show. It is just another example of parasite v host. I am all for anything to bring down healthcare companies who make billions off sick folk. Well, rather well folk because they drop sick ones as not profitable.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    First of all, please read what I say, not attach your own meaning to it. I said that premiums will stop going up for nefarious reasons. Second, how is it that competition is reduced? Have any insurance companies closed down recently? If anything cost should be reduced because there will be more people to spread the cost over.

    When the President said that you can keep your employer based insurance, I should think he meant for those who were currently employed, or paying for their own plans. Expecting companies to continually cover people for life, even as the cost of insurance goes-up is ludicrous.

    Finally, I simply do not understand people who defend the current system when the US is one of the lowest nations in life-expectancy, infant mortality, and many other areas of healthcare when compared to other nations such as Japan, that possess universal healthcare completely ran by the government. Do we want poor healthcare overall for a high price so that a minority of rich can have the best while everyone else gets some of the worst, and we can call it "market-driven?"
    Go re-read what you wrote. You said that insurance comapnies will stop raising rates when they FIGURE OUT THEY WON'T BE ELIGIBLE TO ENTER THE NEW GOVERNMENT POOLS.

    On the second point the president made no such disclaimer. If he did the public would have been even more pissed than they are now.

    I do not defend the current system. I do not like to advocate one position by distorting another. As to your last statement, we live in a capitalistic system. If you agree with capitalism and not utopia then the rich get the best, hopefully with appropriate safety nets the poor are better off than they can really afford.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    First of all, please read what I say, not attach your own meaning to it. I said that premiums will stop going up for nefarious reasons. Second, how is it that competition is reduced? Have any insurance companies closed down recently? If anything cost should be reduced because there will be more people to spread the cost over.

    When the President said that you can keep your employer based insurance, I should think he meant for those who were currently employed, or paying for their own plans. Expecting companies to continually cover people for life, even as the cost of insurance goes-up is ludicrous.

    Finally, I simply do not understand people who defend the current system when the US is one of the lowest nations in life-expectancy, infant mortality, and many other areas of healthcare when compared to other nations such as Japan, that possess universal healthcare completely ran by the government. Do we want poor healthcare overall for a high price so that a minority of rich can have the best while everyone else gets some of the worst, and we can call it "market-driven?"
    Allegedly nefarious reasons will be replaced with legitimate reasons. How does that help things?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Our system is the result of government interference into the lives of the people to begin with. You want the government to be even more involved when it has shown, historically, that it mucks things up?
    If companies had and exercised some self governance and weren't out to squeeze the last bit'0 shyte from the public's buffalo nickel then there would be NO need for government to "interfer". Free market has been taken over by unadulterated greed.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Go re-read what you wrote. You said that insurance comapnies will stop raising rates when they FIGURE OUT THEY WON'T BE ELIGIBLE TO ENTER THE NEW GOVERNMENT POOLS.

    On the second point the president made no such disclaimer. If he did the public would have been even more pissed than they are now.

    I do not defend the current system. I do not like to advocate one position by distorting another. As to your last statement, we live in a capitalistic system. If you agree with capitalism and not utopia then the rich get the best, hopefully with appropriate safety nets the poor are better off than they can really afford.
    So from me saying that companies will cease needless increases I am saying they will reduce cost? No, I am saying that the rate of increase will slow.

    If the president could control the acts of every company you would then complain that we have become a socialist nation.

    And finally, I distort nothing. The system is what it is. It is inferior to other systems and healthcare should not be a product to be bought and sold, but a service that "humans" have access to. I realize in this country most have become indoctrinated with "capitalism" is the solution to everything, but ideas and theories can only go so far in promoting the betterment of man. Why do so many simply want to sit still in the evolution of society and life, rather than see a world that may be better for all.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Allegedly nefarious reasons will be replaced with legitimate reasons. How does that help things?
    It slows the rate of increase that exists only to feed greed. I do not argue that capitalism is bad, but I do argue that capitalism should never come before human life.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by sokpupet View Post
    If companies had and exercised some self governance and weren't out to squeeze the last bit'0 shyte from the public's buffalo nickel then there would be NO need for government to "interfer". Free market has been taken over by unadulterated greed.
    First off, the government interferred back in the 40's with an income tax of 90%, so companies offered insurance as a way of compensation. The federal government approved of it and let it slide. The advent of people not seeing a bill has caused insurance and health care rates to skyrocket. Mainly due to the federal government's interference once again by passing a law that forbade health insurance companies from competing across state lines. Add in the FDA approval process for medicines etc... and Medicare putting in price controls. That's not free market, but government interference.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 10-07-10 at 12:17 PM.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    First off, the government interferred back in the 40's with an income tax of 90%, so companies offered insurance as a way of compensation. The federal government approved of it and let it slide. The advent of people not seeing a bill has caused insurance and health care rates to skyrocket. Mainly due to the federal government's interference once again by passing a law that forbade health insurance companies from competing across state lines. Add in the FDA approval process for medicines etc... and Medicare putting in price controls. That's not free market, but government interference.
    The reason the government forbade insurance companies from competiting across state lines was to prevent insurance companies for setting up shop in states that allowed to do as they wished and pushing it on all patients. The government controls were put into place to attempt to stop the leak of those who could no longer afford healthcare from becoming a gusher that it is now becoming. But I realize that most feel that allowing companies to make extravagant profits is far more important than saving human lives.

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    Re: 3M Co. will drop retirees from health plans, steer to Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    The reason the government forbade insurance companies from competiting across state lines was to prevent insurance companies for setting up shop in states that allowed to do as they wished and pushing it on all patients. The government controls were put into place to attempt to stop the leak of those who could no longer afford healthcare from becoming a gusher that it is now becoming. But I realize that most feel that allowing companies to make extravagant profits is far more important than saving human lives.
    Doesn't wash since car insurance companies are allowed to compete across state lines and car insurance premiums are quite low per person. The government controls were put into place in order to dictate the price of goods and services in health care. Of course, doing this caused health care providers to commit fraud in order to earn the money that they should have originally. I want you to provide proof that insurance companies have huge profits, so I want a source.

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